Light ROM 1/LIGHT-ROM 1 (Amiga Library Services)(1994).iso/imagine/text/archive.46

Text File | 1994-10-19 | 597KB | 15,465 lines

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21400.3.1.5750 Essence II/Imagine 2.9
11/18/93 21:10 6/ [e-mail]
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What's the deal?!  Is there anyway to get Imagine 2.9 to work with Essence II
textures?!?!  Will Imagine 3.0 work with Essence II textures?  I mean sure
it came with 50 textures but I want to use my Essence II textures which I
have used in countless projects before!!  Has anyone talked to Impulse
about this?  Or will there be an upgrade for Essence textures that work
with 2.9/3.0?  Otherwise Imagine 2.9 is GREAT!  I love those particles!
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21400.3.1.5751 Re: 2.9 particle question (fwd)
11/18/93 21:19 28/ Daniel Jr Murrell <[e-mail]>
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Forwarded message from Greg:

> From [e-mail] Thu Nov 18 22:30:34 1993
> Subject: Re: 2.9 particle question
>
>
> Dan, feel free to send this to the IML
>
> Rendering times using the Paricle system...it can increase dramatically
>
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> A particle can be a FACE, a PRIMITIVE, or another OBJECT
>
> Depending which you choose, you will either add NO additional faces, to
> thousands of additional faces.  Each face of an object that you apply the
> Particle system to becomes a particle.  If you predefine the particle to be a
> 100 faced object, the number of faces becomes 100 x (number of faces in
> affected object).
>
> GreG
>
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ouch! so does that mean that Imagine will be rendering several thousand particles
for a decently complex particle system, with the particles being a hundred or so
faces worth each?  Does Imagine include any kind of sppedup algorithms to handle
these cases?  Seems like that could take hours to render each frame.

Dan

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21400.3.1.5752 RE: Long Render Times
11/18/93 22:21 9/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
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>I've heard this can help quite a bit.  Exactly how much, I dunno.  I'd
>wager it helps less for floating point intensive code than otherwise.

Try running AIBB first using standard 68000 code and then use the 020+
optimized code.  I did this on my 3000 and the speed increase is very
significant.

Jason K.
CYBERNETIC EXPRESSIONS
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21400.3.1.5753 Re: Field Rendering
11/18/93 22:51 24/ "J_GEORGE" <[e-mail]>
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Thanks to those that posted that information on field renderings. I have a
couple of questions:

1] Although this can't be done within Imagine, has anyone experimented with
doing so through one of the image processing programs using arexx?

2] If so, since there would be no time saved during rendering, would the
savings be passed on to the actual memory used for an animation? Correct me if
I'm wrong, but that would seem to be a good way to economize on memory usage
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for those creating animations to be played back in memory, thus longer anims
using less RAM (for those of us who are stuck being memory conscious). ;-)

3] Okay, so I had to add a third question. Is this a technique commonly used by
professional [computer] animators?

4] LAST QUESTION: Are there any books/texts that describe this process in
greater detail?

Thanks in advance..
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                                                        I\/Iax I\Iomad


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21400.3.1.5754 RE: Long Render Times
11/19/93 05:55 24/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> Try running AIBB first using standard 68000 code and then use the 020+
> optimized code.  I did this on my 3000 and the speed increase is very
> significant.

Yeah, but this is a different optimization.  Using 020+ code makes the
compiler use the enhanced 020(30) opcodes which are faster for many
things than the 000.  But there are two completely separate
optimizations possible for the 040 over the 030.  One, which AIBB *does*
do, is the FP optimization.  The other, which it doesn't do, is a
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*reordering* of the instruction stream to achieve maximum
parallelization and pipelining - this is somewhat independent of whether
it uses 020/030 or just 000 opcodes.  So basically, code which is
*really* optimized for specifically the 040 will get an even bigger
improvement than it appears from your AIBB tests.  The 060 will get a
bigger improvement yet from this sort of instruction reordering.  Risc
chips depend heavily on this also.

Now if we could just get C= to give us a real memory subsystem in the
4000 we'd get another big improvement in speed.
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Well, this is straying away from IML topics, so I'll be quiet now...

  - steve
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21400.3.1.5755 Re: Archive#43
11/19/93 06:41 32/ [e-mail] (Greg Pringle)
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>   I'm sure that I already posted this but can't remember it appearing on
>   the list.

  That's because you forgot to Cc: to the mailing list when
  you replied to me..

>   couldn't upload it to the usual spot on wuarchive. I'll upload it there
>   when waurchive lets me.
>   Nik.
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   Just came through today.. I sent a copy up to the Imagine Archive.

   I also put up a mpeg animation done with imagine PC, and a short
   text file describing how to make mpeg animations from imagine,
   in case anyone's interested..

  Greg


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--
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Greg Pringle                 | Amiga VBBS - Multitasking, Windowed   |
| [e-mail]     |                BBS'ing!               |
| [e-mail]  | VBBS 14.4K: [phone] & 284-5625 |
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------+




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21400.3.1.5756 Re: Field Rendering
11/19/93 07:44 65/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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Sorry for the length
>
> Thanks to those that posted that information on field renderings. I have a
> couple of questions:
>
> 1] Although this can't be done within Imagine, has anyone experimented with
> doing so through one of the image processing programs using arexx?

I thought 2.9 handled this?  isn't that why this discussion came up?  Did I
misread again?
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> 2] If so, since there would be no time saved during rendering, would the
> savings be passed on to the actual memory used for an animation?

Whoops, you missed something.  There is a time savings.  I didn't notice till
today, but a previous post kinda misstated something

> we rendered fields like this:         and displayed them like this:
>
> Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6          Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
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>        +---+---+---+---+---+--               +---+---+---+---+---+--
> Field  A   A   A   A   A   A          Field  A   A   A   A   A   A
> Field  B   B   B   B   B   B          Field    B   B   B   B   B   B
>
> Field rendering allows us to          and display them as always, but
> render fields like this:              without introducing artifacting:
>
> Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6          Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
>        +---+---+---+---+---+--               +---+---+---+---+---+--
> Field  A   A   A   A   A   A          Field  A   A   A   A   A   A
Command:
> Field    B   B   B   B   B   B        Field    B   B   B   B   B   B
>
The above isn't really true, as another poster pointed out.
Its more like this(let me try my hand at ascii):

> we rendered fields like this:         and displayed them like this:
>
> Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6          Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
>        +---+---+---+---+---+--               +---+---+---+---+---+--
> Field  A   B   C   D   E   F          Field  A   B   C   D   E   F
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> Field  A   B   C   D   E   F          Field    A   B   C   D   E   F
>
> Field rendering allows us to
> render fields like this:              And display them like this:
>
> Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6          Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
>        +---+---+---+---+---+--               +---+---+---+---+---+--
> Field  A   C   E   G   I   K          Field  A   C   E   G   I   K
> Field    B   D   F   H   J   L        Field    B   D   F   H   J   L

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See, twice as many fields, for the same price! This adds smoothness to the
animation.

> 3 Okay, so I had to add a third question. Is this a technique commonly used by
> professional [computer] animators?

I believe it is for TV.  For movies, it wouldn't make sense. As to how they
go from movies to TV, you got me.


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Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
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21400.3.1.5757 040 optimization
11/19/93 07:11 29/ [e-mail] (Phil Martin u)
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>
> need/desire.  I would think that if the Imagine code is written in C or some
> high-level language, it would just be a matter of the right choice of
> compiler to optimize the code for the '040.  However, I don't know if
> Imagine may not be written in Assembly or maybe parts of it.   I suspect it
> is written in C, though, seeing the port over to 80X86 MS-DOS machines.  If
> it were written in Assembly, I think it would be faster, too.  But that
> would probably be a one-way ticket to the funny farm to do that!

I don't know, if you've got working C code it would mostly be a
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mechanical type of job to translate it into ASM. PageStream 3.0 was
entirely re-written in ASM, and I'm sure it sees a big speed increase.
Just look at the speed difference between PD games written in C and
commercial games written in ASM, there's no comparison.

>
> It would be nice if Impulse would optimize Imagine for running on an 040
> machine.  Slower rendering times now are partly because Imagine ISN'T
> optimized for an 040.

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I wouldn't worry about this too much, from what I hear the speed increase
is generally under 10% in the best circumstances.

>
> Jason K.
> CYBERNETIC EXPRESSIONS
>

Phil Martin.
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21400.3.1.5758 Re[2]: Field Rendering
11/19/93 07:35 12/ [e-mail]
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<...stuff deleted...>
>3] Okay, so I had to add a third question. Is this a technique commonly used by
>professional [computer] animators?
....
>Thanks in advance..
>
>                                                       I\/Iax I\Iomad

     The real reason I asked about field rendering in the first place
     is that I know someone who produces animations for TV
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     commercials, and his animations look so much smoother than mine.
     I'm sure that field rendering is not the only reason, though.
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21400.3.1.5759 Re: Field Rendering
11/19/93 09:18 19/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Thomas Setzer writes:
>
> 60 fields/s has got to be a lot smoother than 30 frames(30 fields)/s.  Nice.
> The PAR handles this, doesn't it?  Someone should try it, let us know the
> difference.

Yes the PAR handles this nicely.  I did a few tests with LW 3.0.  I also
used motion blur.  Since motion blur adds about 5 more units of motion
per frame (that's what it looks like, the manual is very vague),
I figure that this combo results in about 300 units of _perceived_
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motion per second!

I'm curious though, about how the JPEG compression of the PAR affects
field rendering.  Does the PAR store each field seperately, or does it
combine them into one compressed frame?  Whatever, it looks great when
played back.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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21400.3.1.5760 Lens flare (was RE: 3DS Vs. Imagine speed)
11/19/93 09:51 18/ "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, Breno A. Silva wrote:

>BTW, I hope Imagine 3.0 include Lens Flare.

They've put a lens flare *TEXTURE* in 2.9, that renders sort of
semi-transparent star shapes in place of the object to which the texture is
attached.  I suppose if you made a lightsource object in the detail editor, you
could add a lens flare texture to it.  I haven't tried this yet, and I wonder
if the flare would re-orient itself to face the camera as long as the light was
in the camera's field of view, regardless of how much camera/light movement
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there was...if you see what I mean.

I hope the lens flare texture is just a stop-gap until they implement lens
flare properly in 3.0.  By properly, I mean something like the way Lightwave
seems to implement it.

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5761 FW: Long Render Times
11/19/93 09:29 13/ Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail].m
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 ----------
From: Rick Rodriguez
To: TedS
Subject: RE: Long Render Times
Date: Thursday, November 18, 1993 10:47PM

Imagine IS optimized for the '040.  It has been for a very long time.
Please stop repeating this ridiculous assertion.  For confirmation,
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call Impulse tomorrow and speak directly to Mike Halvorson.
 --Rick Rodriguez

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21400.3.1.5762 RE: Long Render Times
11/19/93 09:45 32/ Eric Chet <[e-mail]>
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> Yeah, but this is a different optimization.  Using 020+ code makes the
> compiler use the enhanced 020(30) opcodes which are faster for many
> things than the 000.  But there are two completely separate
> optimizations possible for the 040 over the 030.  One, which AIBB *does*
> do, is the FP optimization.  The other, which it doesn't do, is a

I believe the FP optimization AIBB does for the 040 is inline in software any
exception traped instructions that are not included in the 040 FPU.  This saves
in the exception trap time.  I believe on the motorola ftp site it's possible
to get the FPSP source.  It would be great if SAS had a option to inline all
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040 FPU instructions that are exception trapped.  I know in SAS/C 6.50 it does
instruction reordering for the 030/040/882.


Eric

> *reordering* of the instruction stream to achieve maximum
> parallelization and pipelining - this is somewhat independent of whether
> it uses 020/030 or just 000 opcodes.  So basically, code which is
> *really* optimized for specifically the 040 will get an even bigger
Command:
> improvement than it appears from your AIBB tests.  The 060 will get a
> bigger improvement yet from this sort of instruction reordering.  Risc
> chips depend heavily on this also.
>
> Now if we could just get C= to give us a real memory subsystem in the
> 4000 we'd get another big improvement in speed.
>
> Well, this is straying away from IML topics, so I'll be quiet now...
>
>   - steve
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>

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21400.3.1.5763 Re: Motorola FTP site? (was RE: Long Render Times)
11/19/93 11:35 37/ Eric Chet <[e-mail]>
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>
> >I believe the FP optimization AIBB does for the 040 is inline in software any
> >exception traped instructions that are not included in the 040 FPU.  This saves
> >in the exception trap time.  I believe on the motorola ftp site it's possible
> >to get the FPSP source.  It would be great if SAS had a option to inline all
> >040 FPU instructions that are exception trapped.  I know in SAS/C 6.50 it does
> >instruction reordering for the 030/040/882.
>
>   Where is this Motorola FTP site?  What's there?
>
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>   --Andy Church
>
>

I have not found a site that mirrors the Motorola BBS totally.  This is the
information I have.

Motorola BBS: 512-440-2725

FPSP source from the Motorola BBS and have converted it
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to GNU GAS format.  The source is available by anonymous ftp from:
        ftp.usask.ca      /pub/software/fpsp/fpsp_gas.tar.gz

Motorola mirrors
ernie.uvic.ca
suniams1.statistik.tu-muenchen.de  /incoming/motorola  /pub/motorola
bode.ee.ualberta.ca
calvin.stanford.edu
ee.utah.edu
red.cs.tcu.edu
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68k sites

cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
lucy.ifi.unibas.ch

Hope this helps.  Eric
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21400.3.1.5764 Re: Field Rendering
11/19/93 12:02 94/ [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)
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At  9:44 AM 11/19/93 -0600, Thomas Setzer wrote:
>> 1] Although this can't be done within Imagine, has anyone experimented with
>> doing so through one of the image processing programs using arexx?
>
>I thought 2.9 handled this?  isn't that why this discussion came up?  Did I
>misread again?

3.0 is supposed to, but I don't think 2.9 does this yet.  Or did I just
miss it?  Regardless, it's one of the features advertised for 3.0.

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>> 2] If so, since there would be no time saved during rendering, would the
>> savings be passed on to the actual memory used for an animation?
>
>Whoops, you missed something.  There is a time savings.  I didn't notice till
>today, but a previous post kinda misstated something
>
>> we rendered fields like this:         and displayed them like this:
>>
>> Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6          Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
>>        +---+---+---+---+---+--               +---+---+---+---+---+--
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>> Field  A   A   A   A   A   A          Field  A   A   A   A   A   A
>> Field  B   B   B   B   B   B          Field    B   B   B   B   B   B
>>
>> Field rendering allows us to          and display them as always, but
>> render fields like this:              without introducing artifacting:
>>
>> Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6          Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
>>        +---+---+---+---+---+--               +---+---+---+---+---+--
>> Field  A   A   A   A   A   A          Field  A   A   A   A   A   A
>> Field    B   B   B   B   B   B        Field    B   B   B   B   B   B
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>>
>The above isn't really true, as another poster pointed out.
>Its more like this(let me try my hand at ascii):

I don't think I misstated anything here.  It was more a matter of
semantics, I believe.

>> we rendered fields like this:         and displayed them like this:
>>
>> Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6          Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
Command:
>>        +---+---+---+---+---+--               +---+---+---+---+---+--
>> Field  A   B   C   D   E   F          Field  A   B   C   D   E   F
>> Field  A   B   C   D   E   F          Field    A   B   C   D   E   F

This is confusing.  How are you distinguishing between the first and
second field of each frame?  Maybe we're miscommunicating the idea of
fields.  One field is all of the odd display lines and the other is all
of the even display lines.  On televisions and interlaced monitors these
are displayed alternately.  On non-interlaced monitors the beam paints
each display line in sequence, but generally twice as fast.  The idea
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of fields does not apply to non-interlaced displays.  On televisions
and other interlaced displays you get one entire frame every 1/25 (PAL)
or 1/30 (NTSC) of a second, and each field of that frame takes 1/50
(PAL) or 1/60 (NTSC) of a second to display.

Sorry if this is obvious and for the generalizations.  I'm just trying
to figure out where our disconnect is.

>> Field rendering allows us to
>> render fields like this:              And display them like this:
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>>
>> Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6          Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
>>        +---+---+---+---+---+--               +---+---+---+---+---+--
>> Field  A   C   E   G   I   K          Field  A   C   E   G   I   K
>> Field    B   D   F   H   J   L        Field    B   D   F   H   J   L
>
>See, twice as many fields, for the same price! This adds smoothness to the
>animation.

Whether you call the first two fields 1A and 1B (as I did) or A and B
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(as you do) there are still two fields per frame.  The earlier discussion
resulted from different ideas being represented.  I was trying to explain
field rendering in general while the other poster was describing how field
rendering saves you time over rendering a frame at a time, throwing away alternate fields and merging the remaining fields to achieve the same
effect as field rendering.

Field rendering doesn't give you any more fields.  It's not a matter of
interlaced vs. Amiga non-interlaced display modes.  As a matter of fact,
this entire discussion presupposes that we're talking about interlaced
display modes, and focuses on what image is displayed in the second
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field of each frame.

You know, if we had non-interlaced displays as our target, the whole
issue of field rendering goes out the window.  With televisions being
the prime target though, field rendering remains very important.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy                                     [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5765 Re: Field Rendering
11/19/93 13:06 17/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> I'm curious though, about how the JPEG compression of the PAR affects
> field rendering.  Does the PAR store each field seperately, or does it
> combine them into one compressed frame?  Whatever, it looks great when
> played back.

The PAR saves each frame (2 fields).  Field rendered animations look totally
spectacular on the PAR!

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
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Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5766 Re: 3DS Vs. Imagine speed
11/19/93 14:24 21/ [e-mail]@email.sp.paramax.com
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On Thu, 18 Nov 1993, Breno A. Silva wrote:

> BTW, I hope Imagine 3.0 include Lens Flare. I think it was one of the
> best (if not THE best) additions of LW 3. With the stage editor inter-
> activity AND the screen refresh speed up I was waiting, LW will rest a bit,
> since I prefer the Imagine interface (except the animation of 2.0 that's
> now GREAT!).
>
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> Breno A. Silva ([e-mail])

        Here's what they did.  One of the many new textures that they
included is a lens flare texture.  In my opinion it is a lame attempt to
satisfy Light Wave admirerers.  It must be applied to a disk and placed
behind the light.  It is a little better than some of the Aladdin 3D pics
I've seen, but not by much.  Not very imaginative.

        Maybe the Apex magicians could find a solution?

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5767 good grain and knotholes in aged wooden timbers ?
11/19/93 15:47 15/ "JOSEPH F. HART" <[e-mail]>
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Greetings....

     I am working on a project involving wood with knotholes in it.  I
have noticed that the supplied wood texture generates a long grain
that is rather too smooth and straight for my purposes.  I would also
like to try to get some realistic looking knotholes in what appears to
be aged and crudely cut timbers.  Does anyone have any good
suggestions on perturbing the grain and adding knotholes ?

___________________________________________________________________
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                  |         Internet: [e-mail]
Joe Hart          |     ///    Plink: OSS542
Niagara Falls, NY | \\\///  Ham call: WA2SND
                  |  \XX/   AMIGA - Computers for REAL MEN
===================================================================
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5768 Re: 2.9 Particle Question
11/19/93 16:23 19/ Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
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>       As far as the rendering times....I have not gone crazy with
> particles but they seem to render at a fair pace.  If i recall though the
> manual warns one about using to much since rendering 10,000 dodecahedraons
> will have 10*10,000 faces etc....

That's something important to keep in mind... BTW, anyone know how come
it goes quickly?  This sort of thing in 2.0 would be *horrendously* slow...

[NitPicker v3.02] Actually, a dodecahedron has 12 faces...

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Sorry for not changing the To: line on my first send, BTW... I forgot!
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
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|     Urbana          -HHGTTG                             /   \     |
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5769 Imagine Lens Flare
11/19/93 21:07 16/ [e-mail] (William V. Swartz)
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I gotta say I kind of like this implementation of the 'Lens Flare Texture' you
guys are describing in 2.9, but you guys seem to be knocking it.  Seems to me
it will come in handy to be able to pick which light sources cause flaring as a
scene with many lights placed for effect would look rediculous with say, flares
crawling up a wall behind a table lamp!  This may not be the best example of
what I mean and it may be a false assumption on my part that all lights in LW
will flare if that option is enabled but still I would not be so quick as to
trade this method for LW's.

Methinks I will go ahead and order so I can play with 2.9 as I am getting a
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feeling of longer delays on 3.0!  (Not really, I just want to see the new stuff
bad enough now from reading everyones comments!)

  //
\X/ -BiL-
    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5770 RE: Long Render Times
11/19/93 22:53 8/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
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>Yeah, but this is a different optimization.  Using 020+ code makes the
>compiler use the enhanced 020(30) opcodes which are faster for many

I was only using AIBB as a source for comparing code that was optimized versus
something that wasn't.  I was speaking in general that if the code is
optimized for the processor then you will achieve significant speed increases.

Jason K
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5771 2.9 Startup
11/19/93 23:54 5/ Andrew Nunn <[e-mail]>
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Remember the days of the long pause while the title screen loaded? In
2.9 if Imagine.pic is missing from the directory, the program jumps
straight to the project editor.

Andrew
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5772 Re: FW: Long Render Times
11/19/93 23:59 35/ Steve Lopez <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 19 Nov 1993, Stethem Ted 5721 wrote:

> From: Rick Rodriguez
> To: TedS
> Subject: RE: Long Render Times
> Date: Thursday, November 18, 1993 10:47PM
>
> Imagine IS optimized for the '040.  It has been for a very long time.
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> Please stop repeating this ridiculous assertion.  For confirmation,
> call Impulse tomorrow and speak directly to Mike Halvorson.
>  --Rick Rodriguez

I'm Inclined to agree...It really cooks on my 2000 w/GVP 040 '33  I have
averagespeeds of 1-2 mins per frame, and the longest I've been able to
 slow it is about 15 mins per frame.  Although, It's not nearly as fast on
my friends 4000, I wonder why?  I think maybe the people having trouble
might try diddling with the prefs a bit...I changed the Octree settins a
bit when I first got it...just fooled with it, and now it's faster.  Good
Command:
luck!

Only on AMIGA!!

     /----------------------------------------------\
    /    ///  Steve Lopez -> [e-mail]    \
   /    ///    Student at -> Art Institute of Seattle \
  / \\\///        Program -> Audio & Video Production  \
  \  \XX/ `040'  Computer -> Amiga 2000 GVP040'33 DCTV /
   \                       : DSS8+ 9megs Flicker fxr  /
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    \ "I can do that..."   : Midi DJ500c Supra 14.4k /
     \----------------------------------------------/



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5773 Re: trace vs scanline
11/20/93 05:23 26/ [e-mail] (Paul Marino)
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Ted,

It sounds like your running into the same wall that we've all run into at one
time or another.

Lots of ambition, no speed.

Well, my solution would be to composite your animation.

What I mean by that is, if your camera doesn't move throughout the animation
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you can generate ONE still image of your Atlantis scene, and then
scanline render only the animated objects.

This can be done easily by generating that first frame (Atlantis) and then use
it as your background frame within Imagine.

It sounds as if their are other ways around this prob as well...(Complex anims
often have complex solutions....I've been through this plenty of times)

Leave some "E" on how you made out...
Command:

Your fellow Imagineer,

-Paul Marino.


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5774 Re: Imagine 2.9 - It's HERE!
11/20/93 06:41 29/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Tue, 16 Nov 1993, Michael B. Comet wrote:

>
>
> >
> >You mention editing in Detail editor in perspective. Can you actually
> >move points and faces or not ? This would be way cool if possible.
> >
> >Nik.
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>       Yes,  it draws the points faces etc in perspective, and you can
> select and move them in the perspective window with clicking, bounding box
> and lasso etc...
>
>       Pretty neat.
Command:

Alright! I can't wait to get it!
Should be early next week hopefully.



Nik.


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5775 RE: Long Render Times
11/20/93 07:12 21/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Thu, 18 Nov 1993, Steve Koren wrote:

>
> > could express very deeply that 3.0 should be optimized for the '040.  Or
>
> If they are using SAS/C (good chance they are, I'd guess), then before
> version 6.50 you could optimize for the 68030 (which used 030 op codes),
> but there was no specific instruction scheduler for the 040.  As of
> 6.50, there is; it reorders instructions to try to get maximum
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> parallelism from the CPU.  (Certain combinations of instructions can be

From what a friend has told me who looked at the code, Impulse is using
Manx C. Now, Manx C is no longer available for the Amiga. Also, I think
that Impulse have indicated that they are now doing the software writing
on the PC. So, this creates 2 problems these days as far as optimization
goes.

Nik.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5776 Alpha Compositing
11/20/93 08:22 109/ [e-mail] (Paul Marino)
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 Sorry to be so behind the times...(my email had Ted's first post in front
of all the responses)

Ted, (& all others who are interested...)

I'm sure by now you've tried this method of rendering the
still background image, you might want ot use an alpha channel render
to composite the animation (Jason Birch mentions this in his post)

Its actually quite simple, however you'll need ADPro to help you...(If
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you don't have ADPro, I strongly suggest you RUN out and buy a copy right
away...)

In Imagine...

1) Render your animated submarine (or spaceship, or airplane,
   or mother-in-law, etc.) by itself.(preferrably over a black background)

2) Now go into the detail editor and load the object(s) that are moving
   in your animation.
Command:

3) Take off ALL of the attributes that you have applied to the object.
            ---
4) Make the object(s) 255 white and click on BRIGHT. (This makes your
   object fully shading independent).

5) Save this object(s) as another name (I usually end with the suffix ".alf")

6) Exit the Detail editor.

Command:

So far, this might sound a bit unusual but stay with me its worth the trouble.


6) Using the CLI or WB (or any other directory util you have)
   Copy the Project you rendered the animated moving object. Again,for
   consistency and clarity label the new project "X_Alf.imp"

7) Go back into Imagine and open up your new "X_Alf" project.

Command:
8) Enter the Action Editor. Locate your moving object(s) and replace its
   name with the new white object(s).

9) Render this white object animation.

Now, what you've just created is an animation of this white object(s) which,
when rendered, will be pixel-to-pixel to the animated colored object(s).

You may now ask "Why in the world do I need this?".

Command:
We created this animation so that we can composite (there's that word again)
our object on top of a scene that on its own takes hours(9 hours, TBE).

We'll use these frames in ADPro to as elements to composite with.

Now load up ADPro.

1) Load the background image into ADpro. (Atlantis?)

2) Click on the "Replc" button and make sure it switches to "Comp".
Command:

3) With the loader set to "Alpha", open the first picture of
   your first animation.

4) After this picture loads in, a "composition control" requester will appear.
   Click on "O.K.". (FYI - this requester allows you to manipulate the
   compositing of images, we dont need to use it here however.)

5) After leaving the "composition control" requester, a SECOND file requester
   will appear asking for an alpha channel file. This is where our white object
Command:
   frames come in. Click on the first frame of that animation.

   **** NOTE: the white object frames need to be first converted to   ****
   **** grayscale (8 bit) before they can be used by the alpha loader ****

   ADPro then examines the white object frame. It lays in the color object
   over the background image, using the white object frame as reference for
   transparency. (full white->opaque,   full black-> totally transparent)

6) After a few seconds... Hooray! You've just composited a frame!
Command:


This gives you quite a bit of control over rendering.


 Question:
What happens if you have objects that don't move in front of
your moving animation? How do I get my object to go behind it?

 Answer:
Command:
Easy. In your white object animation include those objects as well. Only
make those black - 0 black. When ADPro gets to the frame in which the white
object goes behind the black,it will only place the color object (your first
animation)  where white exists. Thus creating "foreground" with
of your background image.



BTW, ADPro uses FRED to apply this technique over sequential frames.

Command:
Also, Imagine 3.0 will supposedly have alpha channel support. So having to copy
projects for alpha passes SHOULD be a thing of the past.

Hope this answers more questions than it creates....

Your friendly NYC Imagineer,
Paul Marino.

P.S. Sorry for eating up so much space...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5777 Yellow Crystal Sphere
11/22/93 09:12 54/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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        Hello,

        I'm trying to figure out the lighting and attribute settings to
        make a transparent crystal ball with a bright yellow tint.

        I have a acheived the transparency effect fine by playing with the
        filter value, however I'm have a hell of a time getting the color
        to show as yellow.  I have set the attribute values to the
        following.
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        Color: R=255
               G=255
               B=0

        Reflectance: R=1
                     G=1
                     B=1

        Filter: R=255
Command:
                G=255
                B=0

        Hardness is 255, Shininess=0, Specular is a little brighter than
        color.  I have a global brush map of sky colors for some metalic
        elements that will come into the animation later.

        The sphere tends to take on the colors of the global brush map as
        opposed to the color of the sphere as defined in its attributes.
        the specular highlights show as the color I need.
Command:

        I thought perhaps I needed a light behind it to illuminate the
        glass.  So I added a cylinrical light, tracked it to the sphere,
        and placed it behind and above the sphere.  I'm still getting a
        purpleish sphere, as opposed to a yellow sphere.

        Any ideas?

        The sphere looks great.  The transparency is great.  I just need
        it to be yellow.  What am I missing?  I have practically memorized
Command:
        Understanding Imagine 2.0 (page 36 I think) about understanding
        the attribute settings.  I still must be missing something.

        Dale


        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
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        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5778 Re: Sphere primitive doesn't work
11/22/93 10:40 17/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|The sphere primitive (as in 1.1) is a mathematical construct, not a set of
|discrete points.  The wireframe you see is just an approximation.  Use the
|Sphere listed with the other primitives, where you can define the point
|count, and you'll be able to edit it.

        Is this function in 2.0?  Also, would it take less time to render
        due to the absnce of points?

        I have a crystal ball that I am using in an animation.  I need to
        assign it various attributes, but will not morph it, or change
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        it's shape at all.  It takes a long time to render because I
        created it with a lot of faces in order to get the smooth surface.
        Decreasing the number of points would speed things up
        considerably.

        Dale

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5779 Re: Imagine Lens Flare
11/22/93 08:22 16/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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> I gotta say I kind of like this implementation of the Lens Flare Texture you
> guys are describing in 2.9, but you guys seem to be knocking it. Seems to me
> it will come in handy to which light sources cause flaring

LightWvae gives you full control of flare parameters for every light source
individually. Only those lights you choose will have any flare effects. The
implementation and results are vastly superior to any other implementation
I have seen in other 3D programs (including 3D Studio). I have to say that
Imagine's implementation is rather lame.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5780 Re: Field Rendering
11/19/93 09:05 30/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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> The savings come into play when someone might have done this manually.

However, even when done automatically by the software, there is a render time
penalty for field rendering. Even though the same number of pixels are
being computed per frame, the presence of two time shifted fieds means that
all the initization calculations most be done twice for each frame. This
includes traversing the database, all coordinate transformations, computing
shadow maps, etc. However, generally this is not a huge impact.

> 60 fields/s has got to be a lot smoother than 30 frames(30 fields)/s.
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It is MUCH smoother, especially when there is a lot of motion right in front
of the camera.

> The PAR handles this, doesn't it?  Someone should try it, let us know the
> difference.

The PAR fully supports fields and frames. The difference can be tremendous
when there is a lot of frame to frame motion. The individual frames look
pretty crappy because of the time separation of the fields, but the resulting
Command:
animation very smooth. If you take a look at the individual frames of my
Creature animation I uploaded, you will note that they are field rendered
(and some are also motion blurred).
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5781 Re: Sphere primitive doesn't work
11/22/93 11:40 26/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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>
> |The sphere primitive (as in 1.1) is a mathematical construct, not a set of
> |discrete points.  The wireframe you see is just an approximation.  Use the
> |Sphere listed with the other primitives, where you can define the point
> |count, and you'll be able to edit it.
>
>       Is this function in 2.0?  Also, would it take less time to render
>       due to the absnce of points?
>
Yes, in trace mode.
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>       I have a crystal ball that I am using in an animation.  I need to
>       assign it various attributes, but will not morph it, or change
>       it's shape at all.  It takes a long time to render because I
>       created it with a lot of faces in order to get the smooth surface.
>       Decreasing the number of points would speed things up
>       considerably.
>
The sphere primitive (as opposed to the primitive sphere) is only a perfect
object in trace mode.  In scanline mode, it is approximated by a polygon-
Command:
ized sphere.  Given that you want a crystal ball, this should not be a
problem (i.e., you need to trace anyway, right?).

>       Dale
>
_john
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5782 remove me
11/22/93 13:51 1/ [e-mail] (Marjorie Franklin)
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Please remove me from the IML.  Thanks!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5783 Re: Sphere primitive doesn't work
11/22/93 13:36 30/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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>
> |The sphere primitive (as in 1.1) is a mathematical construct, not a set of
> |discrete points.  The wireframe you see is just an approximation.  Use the
> |Sphere listed with the other primitives, where you can define the point
> |count, and you'll be able to edit it.
>
>       Is this function in 2.0?  Also, would it take less time to render
>       due to the absnce of points?
>
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Yes.  Yes(actually there is probably a different algorithm for the intersection
of a ray(ray-tracing) for the math sphere which causes the speed up)

>       I have a crystal ball that I am using in an animation.  I need to
>       assign it various attributes, but will not morph it, or change
>       it's shape at all.  It takes a long time to render because I
>       created it with a lot of faces in order to get the smooth surface.
>       Decreasing the number of points would speed things up
>       considerably.

Command:
Yes, use the sphere if you can.  I think it is under the add in the function
menu.  Not under primitives but on the same level as primitives and axis etc.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5784 Re: Yellow Crystal Sphere
11/22/93 13:32 32/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|>         Filter: R=255
|>                 G=255
|>                 B=0
|
|I *think* you have to set:
|
|         Filter: R=0
|                 G=0
|                 B=255
|
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|because you want to filter out the blue, and leave the yellow.  You're
|filtering out the yellow and leaving the blue.

        Interesting.  I could have sworn the book said you are setting the
        value that you want to want to pass through.  It was talking about
        a stained glass effect.  Therefore, if you wanted a tinted glass,
        you would set the value to the color that you wanted the color to
        be.  Maybe I just had a brain fart and misinterpreted the
        paragraph.  I'll double check.

Command:
        Thanks,

        Dale


        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
Command:
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5785 UNSUBSCRIBE
11/22/93 14:08 6/ Jeff Owens <[e-mail]>
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SOrry for the garbage bandwidth.  UNSUBSCRIBE please.

Also, if possible, change subscription to [e-mail]

Thanks.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5786 Re: Sphere primitive doesn't work
11/22/93 14:26 17/ Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
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>       I have a crystal ball that I am using in an animation.  I need to
>       assign it various attributes, but will not morph it, or change
>       it's shape at all.  It takes a long time to render because I
>       created it with a lot of faces in order to get the smooth surface.

If I am not mistaken, though, it would be impossible to morph the sphere
primitive - for the exact reason that it *has* no points.

Anyone tried this?
--
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     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "We apologize for the inconvenience."      _@_      |
|     Urbana          -HHGTTG                             /   \     |
|                                       kilroy was here  | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5787 Work area size
11/22/93 15:02 7/ [e-mail]
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About a week I said that Imagine 3.0 will allow you to define a larger
work area.  This was based on a conversation I had with Mike Halvorson.
  Since then I found that I misunderstood.  Apparently the ACTION editor
will have more room in it.  The editors will remain as-is size-wise.

GreG
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5788 screen size bytes
11/22/93 17:20 10/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
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Did any9one post the locations of the numbers to change the
screen size?  Can someone mail me that information please??

I'm talking about the hack to let Imagine run on other graphics
boards.

thanks
Scott Krehbiel
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5789 RE: imagine 2.9
11/22/93 13:53 11/ Waland J F <[e-mail]>
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Hi, I've just joined the list, have imagine 2.0 (from Amiga Format, here in
the UK) and am waiting for my copy of Imagine 3.0 (#95 not #75 as stated in the
magazine !!! -should cheer all those who are upset about the pricing structure)

anyway, I have seen references to imagine version 2.9 - what is it and what
does it do (especialy what is new compared to 2.0)

thanks in advance,

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5790 Envisage 3D Competive Upgrade Offer from Imagine
11/22/93 19:08 89/ "Tech Support" <[e-mail]>
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TO: IML Imagineers

FROM: Byte by Byte Corporation, a leading provider of professional 3D
      modeling, rendering, and animation software. Developers of the
      Sculpt 3D and Sculpt-Animate 4D software for the Amiga as well as the
      Sculpt series of 3D software for the Apple Macintosh.  Recently
      released Envisage 3D for the MS-DOS platform.

PRODUCT: Envisage 3D is a professional 3D modeling, rendering, and
         animation software package running on MS-DOS based computers.
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         The product lists for $995 and has been shipping since August 1993.

SPECIAL OFFER: Limited offer to acquire Envisage 3D for $500, a 50% savings.
               30 day money back guarantee if not satisfied.

WHO QUALIFIES: First 50 Imagine owners with proof of Imagine ownership.
               Any owner of Sculpt-Animate 4D for the Amiga (unlimited)

VERSION: The commercial 1.1 version of Envisage 3D complete with in depth
         documentation.
Command:

HOW TO ORDER: Contact Byte by Byte Corporation
              Voice:    [phone]
              Fax:      [phone]
              BBS:      [phone]
              Internet: [e-mail]

PAYMENT METHODS: Mastercard, VISA, Cashier's Check, Company Check
                 Personal checks may require ten days to clear.

Command:

                     ENVISAGE 3D FEATURE LIST

Modeler: Workstation grade, hybrid spline/vertex editor with high speed redraw
         Four view using plan, elevation and interactive perspective view
         Individual models up to 7 million polygons, edges, or faces
         Automatic construction of models from plan and elevation profiles
         Deformation modeling with Shaper and Magnet tools
         Boolean subtractive modeling and intersection
         Lofting of non-parallel cross-sections with different vertice counts
Command:
         Welding: seam and crease specification and control
         Built-in procedural spirals and helices
         Path extrusion with size changes
         Type in ATM fonts
         Automatic fill of enclosed polygons or to a specified point
         Automatic beveling and roundovers
         Height fields using image maps to create models, terrains, etc.
         Mathematical surface generation
         Various explodes and shatters
         Equal facility with organic or geometric forms
Command:
         Interactive real time rotation and scaling
         Selection by any attribute including colors, textures, etc.
         Tracing of GIF images
         Hierarchical naming and linking of models

Rendering: High speed Phong rendering - render 1 to 3 minutes per frame
           Image mapping with up to 32 maps per model
           Bump mapping
           Reflection and environment mapping
           Glass, mirrors, and reflections
Command:
           Procedural textures with preview
           Automatic Shadow casting
           Unlimited number of lights
           Glows
           Ambient, point, spot - lights selectable with or without shadows
           Hidden line wireframe with adjustable detail resolution
           Rich high resolution renderings up to 5,000 x 5,000 pixels
           Five selectable levels of anti-aliasing
           Generation of FLI and FLC files
           Optional rendering modules for SGI, Sun, DECStation, and VAX workstations
Command:

Animation: Professional timeline editor
           Interactive real time frame control
           Real time preview without need for pre-calculation
           Skeletonal animation
           Comprehensive morphing
           Dynamic fluid surfaces (ripple and oceanic wave generation)
           Animated ground plane
           Animated FLI and FLC textures for movies within movies
           Graphic velocity and position controls for ease-in and ease-out
Command:
           Interactive spotlight and camera cone tracking
           Multiple cameras
           User customizable bounding boxes
           Automated special effects (modulation, springs, shaking, etc)
           Open architecture for 3rd party plug-in effects and textures

Imports: DXF, ATM, Imagine 2.0, 3D Studio, GIF, TGA, TIFF, FLI, FLC

Exports: DXF, 3D Studio, GIF, TGA, TIFF, FLI, FLC
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5791 Re: Sphere primitive doesn't work
11/23/93 02:57 28/ 23-Nov-1993 0540 <[e-mail]>
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        Dale,

        I was never happy with the sphere primitive. If you get close
        you will see it is not as detailed as the other. It renders faster
        and there may be times you can take advantage of this. I recently
        played with an anim that simply took the title I use for my
        hobby work(never have time to do real work) and morphed it from
        a sphere into three lines of test. Well when I conformed the text
        to a sphere it was fairly ragged. I encased this inside another
        sphere for the first frame. Then I dropped the outer sphere, and
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        started the explode in the second frame. Because of the speed of
        it happening you are hard pressed to tell there are seperate
        objects involved. In a case like this I may get away with the
        primitive sphere(but I diden't bother for 1 frame). However if
        your close up and locked on your sphere you probably can't.
        BTW I recently modeled a crystal ball. It sits in a fancy
        gold ring with three prongs to support it. The ring sets on a
        wooden base Imade with the sweep function. It's not to bad at
        all. I scaned in the parts used for the prongs as opposed to
        trying to model them. As for color, Your always going to pick
Command:
        up the global map. If you turn down some of the filter settings
        you loose tranparency. Is it possible to wrap the sphere in a
        yellow brush and use essence to filter the brush?
                                                        bill
        /*

        bill leimberger nashus n.h.
                                                                        */
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5792 4 sale-:)
11/21/93 12:59 13/ [e-mail]
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Selling: December issue of AMiga Format w/ Imagine2.0 coverdisk. Upgrade
to 2.9 for only xx pounds! Excellent condition, great program.
yours for only 89.99 american dollars!







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(its a joke guys...) send flames to NIL:
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5793 Re: Yellow Crystal Sphere
11/23/93 06:19 33/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|Hey Dale,
|       About your yellow crystal sphere, you didn't mention how
|much reflectivity you had, but you may have your specular
|settings a little high.  That's probably why you're picking up
|your global colors, instead of showing your yellow sphere.
|       I've also found a less intense yellow seems to show a
|warmer color.  Maybe you want that cold yellow, but just for a
|lark, try easing your red back to say 220, and your green down to
|190 or 180.  It really makes a golden yellow.
|
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        I thought I had mentioned my reflectivity.  It is set to 1,1,1.
        That way it would reflect the entire spectrum; but just slightly.
        As far as the specularity, I thought the settings merely indicate
        the color of the highlights.  If the sphere is yellow, I would
        want the highlights to be a slightly brighter yellow.  Is this not
        how the specular setting works?  Why would the specular setting
        influence the global parameters?

        BTW,  I did back off on the yellow a bit and it is warmer looking;
Command:
        thanks  :-)

        Dale



        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
Command:
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5794 Re: 4 sale-:)
11/23/93 06:36 17/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|Selling: December issue of AMiga Format w/ Imagine2.0 coverdisk. Upgrade
|to 2.9 for only xx pounds! Excellent condition, great program.
|yours for only 89.99 american dollars!
|
|
|(its a joke guys...) send flames to NIL:



        uh oh,   now we're getting prank posts.  Sigh....
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        BTW, thanks for all the sphere info.  I'll play with the
        suggestions and get back to all of you.

        Dale

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5795 Statue of Liberty object
11/23/93 07:25 5/ Lorenzo Buonomo <[e-mail]>
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Does exists an object of Statue of Liberty?
Someone can UUENCODE-EMAIL me it (if it's a PD object)
thanks in advance
Lorenzo Buonomo
EMAIL: [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5796 script for rain effects
11/23/93 07:52 205/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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Hi,

Here is a little ARexx script I wrote to accomplish adding rain effects
to rendered images (from anything; doesn't have to be Imagine).  The
script requires ImageFX (which no self respecting 3D artist should be
without anyway :-) ).  It works best if your scene has the WaterDrops
texture from EssenceII applied to surfaces where appropriate.  The final
rain ends up looking similar to that in Mark Thompson's (cool) "Store"
image.  Its a decent effect for post-processing, although naturally the
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rain won't end up reflecting the lighting conditions in your scene
unless you use an alpha channel to make it do so.  This is also not
useful for animation.  If someone wants to enhance the script to do
animated rain, feel free.  Shouldn't be too hard.  You can also use an
alpha channel in ImageFX to apply rain to only certain parts of your
picture.

You get to choose about 12 parameters of the rain.  The script will pick
reasonable defaults based on your image width and height.

Command:
BTW, as long as I'm on the topic of ARexx, why oh why won't Impulse add
an ARexx port to Imagine?  It would be just *incredibly* useful.  They
don't have one in 2.9/3.0, do they?  The things you could do combining
Imagine & other graphics tools with ARexx would be incredible, if only
Impulse would do a little work on an ARexx port.  We *are* in the 90's,
after all.

   - steve


Command:
~~~ cut here ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/*sys:rexxc/rx

 *****************************************************************************
 *                                                                           *
 * ARexx program to simulate rain effects in the current ImageFX buffer.     *
 *                                                                           *
 * Author: Steve Koren                                                       *
 * Date  : 20-Nov-93                                                         *
 *                                                                           *
Command:
 * This code prompts for the following parameters:                           *
 *                                                                           *
 *    length  = length of rain, in pixels                                    *
 *    vary    = rain length variation, in pixels                             *
 *    width   = rain width, in pixels, 1-8                                   *
 *    blend   = rain blending with background (0=transparent, 100=opaque)    *
 *    skew_pc = percent slant variation in individual rain streaks           *
 *              (this is best small)                                         *
 *    density = rain density (0=none, 100=a whole lot)                       *
 *    slant   = slant bias of all rain streaks (-40 to 40 or so)             *
Command:
 *    vwidth  = set to vary width of rain streaks                            *
 *    vlength = set to vary length of rain streaks                           *
 *    r       = rain color, r, 0-255                                         *
 *    g       = rain color, g, 0-255                                         *
 *    b       = rain color, b, 0-255                                         *
 *                                                                           *
 * Defaults are chosen for all values.  The following values are chosen      *
 * based on the size of the image:                                           *
 *                                                                           *
 *    length                                                                 *
Command:
 *    vary                                                                   *
 *    width                                                                  *
 *                                                                           *
 *****************************************************************************/

   OPTIONS RESULTS

/* -- if an ImageFX is not running, complain ------------------------------ */

   if pos('IMAGEFX.1', (show(ports))) = 0 then do
Command:
      say "ImageFX server not running."
      exit 5
   end


/* -- Get info about current buffer --------------------------------------- */

   GetMain
   if result = "" then do
      RequestNotify "Operation requires a buffer."
Command:
      exit 0
   end

   PARSE VAR result buf.name buf.width buf.height buf.depth .


/* -- set defaults -------------------------------------------------------- */

   rain.length  = buf.height / 14
   rain.width   = buf.width  / 160
Command:
   rain.blend   = 45
   rain.vary    = buf.height / 20
   rain.skew_pc = 2
   rain.density = 20
   rain.slant   = 10
   rain.vwidth  = 0
   rain.vlength = 1
   rain.r       = 115
   rain.g       = 109
   rain.b       = 102
Command:


/* -- request parameters from user ---------------------------------------- */

   RainReq.1  = 'I/120/16/Rain Length  :/'||rain.length
   RainReq.2  = 'I/310/16/Rain Width   :/'||rain.width
   RainReq.3  = 'I/120/30/Rain Blend   :/'||rain.blend
   RainReq.4  = 'I/310/30/Rain Vary    :/'||rain.vary
   RainReq.5  = 'I/120/45/Rain Skew Pc :/'||rain.skew_pc
   RainReq.6  = 'I/310/45/Rain Density :/'||rain.density
Command:
   RainReq.7  = 'I/120/60/Rain Slant Pc:/'||rain.slant
   RainReq.8  = 'X/200/62/Vary Width/'||rain.vwidth
   RainReq.9  = 'X/315/62/Length/'||rain.vlength
   RainReq.10 = 'I/120/80/Rain R:/'||rain.r
   RainReq.11 = 'I/220/80/G:/109:/'||rain.g
   RainReq.12 = 'I/320/80/B:/102:/'||rain.b

   ComplexRequest '"Rain Effect Parameters"' 12 RainReq 430 115

   if rc ~= 0 then do
Command:
      RequestNotify "Cancelled."
      exit 0
   end

   rain.length  = max(result.1, 5)
   rain.width   = min(result.2, 8)
   rain.blend   = max(min(result.3, 100), 0)
   rain.vary    = max(result.4, rain.length)
   rain.skew_pc = min(result.5, 100)
   rain.density = max(min(result.6,  100), 0)
Command:
   rain.slant   = max(min(result.7,  100), 0)
   rain.vwidth  = result.8
   rain.vlength = result.9
   rain.r       = max(min(result.10, 255), 0)
   rain.g       = max(min(result.11, 255), 0)
   rain.b       = max(min(result.12, 255), 0)

   rain.numlines = buf.height * buf.width / rain.length / rain.width
   rain.numlines = trunc(rain.numlines * rain.density / 1000)

Command:

/* -- get old state info -------------------------------------------------- */

   LockInput
   Redraw Off

   LockGui
      DrawMode     Normal;      old_drawmode = result
      Blend        rain.blend;  old_blend    = result
      Pen          0 rain.width; PARSE VAR result old_pen.type old_pen.size
Command:
      EdgeMode     FeatherIn rain.width; PARSE VAR result old_e.m old_e.r
      GetPalette   0; PARSE VAR result oldp.r oldp.g oldp.b
      SetPalette   0 rain.r rain.g rain.b
   UnLockGui


/* -- draw a bunch of lines ----------------------------------------------- */

   randu(time(seconds))   /* set seed */

Command:
   BeginBar "Rain" rain.numlines

   do i = 1 to rain.numlines
      line.x0   = trunc(randu() * buf.width)
      line.dy   = rain.length + trunc((randu() - .5) * 2 * rain.vary)
      line.y0   = trunc(randu() * buf.height) - line.dy
      line.x1   = line.x0
      if rain.vlength ~= 0 then do
        line.x1 = line.x0 + line.dy * rain.skew_pc / 100 * (randu() - .5) * 2
      end
Command:
      line.x1   = line.x1 + line.dy * rain.slant / 100
      line.y1   = line.y0 + line.dy

      LockGui
         if rain.vwidth ~= 0 then do
            newwidth = trunc(randu() * rain.width) + 1
            Pen          0 newwidth
            EdgeMode     FeatherIn newwidth
         end

Command:
         Line line.x0 line.y0 line.x1 line.y1
      UnLockGui

      Bar i

   end

   EndBar


Command:
/* -- restore state info -------------------------------------------------- */

   DrawMode     old_drawmode
   Blend        old_blend
   Pen          old_pen.type old_pen.size
   SetPalette   0 oldp.r oldp.g oldp.b
   EdgeMode     old_e.m old_e.r

   randu(time(seconds))

Command:
   UnlockInput
   Redraw On
   Redraw

   exit 0
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5797 Re:  Work area size
11/23/93 08:53 7/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
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>  Since then I found that I misunderstood.  Apparently the ACTION editor
>will have more room in it.  The editors will remain as-is size-wise.

How can various graphics boards promote Imagine to larger work areas but this
can't be done with the stock chipsets?

Jason K
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5798 2.9 and DCTV
11/23/93 09:36 8/ [e-mail]
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     I've noticed that DCTV does not display properly from 2.9,
     renders and animations included.  I have to display the
     images from other programs.  Anyone else have this problem?

     BTW, the new crumpled texture makes an excellent
     bottom-of-the-pool pic/anim!

     Ed
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5799 NTSC anim questions
11/23/93 09:40 19/ [e-mail] (Scott Pack,SQA)
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Hi Imagineers!

I have a opportunity to produce a animation for a local company for use in
a sales video.  The animation they want is pretty simple, but I've never
gone to tape with a animation.  So I have a few questions.

1.  What is the aspect ratio of a NTSC screen?
2.  What are some general rules about colors?  (i.e. avoid saturation)
3.  How can I field render in Imagine 2.0?  (This hasn't been covered, has
it?)
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4.  What's the best way for me to provide my work to the video producer who
will be using a Toaster? (i.e. framestores, IFF24's, complete anim -
format?)

Thanks.

-Scott
[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5800 Re: 2.9 and DCTV
11/23/93 11:18 20/ [e-mail] (Cedric Georges Chang)
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On Nov 23,  9:36am, [e-mail] wrote:
> Subject: 2.9 and DCTV
>      I've noticed that DCTV does not display properly from 2.9,
>      renders and animations included.  I have to display the
>      images from other programs.  Anyone else have this problem?

>      Ed
>-- End of excerpt from [e-mail]

I have called Impulse about this and the bug has already been reported.
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 Imagine 3.0 will have this problem fixed.

Cedric


--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cedric Chang                Mechanical Engineer               // Commodore
[e-mail]       Rennselaer Polytechnic Institute      \X/  Amiga 3000
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5801 Re: 2.9 and DCTV
11/23/93 11:00 12/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|     I've noticed that DCTV does not display properly from 2.9,
|     renders and animations included.  I have to display the
|     images from other programs.  Anyone else have this problem?

        Yips!   Please let us know if others are having the problem.  DCTV
        is how I preview my pics.  So I need that to work before I
        upgrade.

        Thanks,

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        Dale

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5802 Re: Field Rendering
11/23/93 11:03 41/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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Tom sent me this in private email, but I thought I would post to the list
in case there was anyone else who misunderstood what I was refefring to.

Thomas Setzer <[e-mail]> writes:
> > even when done automatically by the software, there is a render time
> > penalty for field rendering. Even though the same number of pixels are
> > being computed per frame
> I'm not sure this is true.  Or perhaps you misunderstood what I tried to say
> therefore causing me to misunderstand your misunderstanding.

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I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying :-) I am not refering to
render speed comparisons between automatic and manual field rendering tasks.
I am saying that field rendering imparts a speed penalty over not doing any
field rendering. This is due to the doubling of the initilization calculations
which now must be done twice per frame rather than once.

> So there is a savings in field rendering, if you had previously done field
> rendering manually(rendering full frames and throwing away the appropriate
> fields).

Command:
Right, but that is not what I was refering to. That savings is much more
obvious.

> I'm not sure I see the penalty.

The penalty I am refering to is more subtle, and it is a penalty going from
NO field rendering to automatic, program generated field rendering (which
Imagine doesn't currently do). LW has been doing autmatic field rendering for
a while now, and with the status info it belches out, you can easily see how
this penalty effects overall render time. It is not unusual to see a 10-20%
Command:
performance hit with it enabled. This is the additional time spent doing all
the object and camera positional calulations a second time for the same frame
(but time shifted 1/60 of a second). However, the number of pixel calculations
remain essentially the same. Hope this clears things up.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
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 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5803 Re: 2.9 and DCTV
11/23/93 12:21 21/ scotte@137.110.11.73 (Scott Ellis)
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Ed_Totman said on Nov 23 :

>      I've noticed that DCTV does not display properly from 2.9,
>      renders and animations included.  I have to display the
>      images from other programs.  Anyone else have this problem?

Yes, I noticed this same thing, but since I hardly ever render to DCTV format,
it's not a big problem. ;-)  I always tend to be on another screen when Imagine
decides to show the Quickrender, so I get to see 1/2 second of it, then I get the
"Delete Quickrender" requester.  So I write a ToolManager macro to display the
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Quickrender file. ;-)

It seems Impulse has rewritten their IFF output routine, as save DCTV format
files now display properly, in hires-lace, whereas Imagine 2.0 IFF files always
wanted to display in Lores-Nonlace.  Go figure.  It's probably a ViewTek problem,
but Impulse DID change something.
   /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
  //  Scott Ellis //  IRC: ScottE // WARNING: This signature warps   //
 //    [e-mail]   //  time and space in its vicinity //
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5804 Re: Envisage 3D Competive Upgrade Offer from Imagine
11/23/93 12:20 114/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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I hate seeing ads here.:(

> FROM: Byte by Byte Corporation, a leading provider of professional 3D
>       modeling, rendering, and animation software. Developers of the
>       Sculpt 3D and Sculpt-Animate 4D software for the Amiga as well as the
Byte my tongue.
>       Sculpt series of 3D software for the Apple Macintosh.  Recently
You left out an adjective, expensive:)
>       released Envisage 3D for the MS-DOS platform.

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>
> PRODUCT: Envisage 3D is a professional 3D modeling, rendering, and
>          animation software package running on MS-DOS based computers.
>          The product lists for $995 and has been shipping since August 1993.
                                  ^^^ wow!
                          how much does 3DS cost?

>
> SPECIAL OFFER: Limited offer to acquire Envisage 3D for $500, a 50% savings.
                                                           ^^^ closer
Command:

>                30 day money back guarantee if not satisfied.

[stuff gone]
>
>
>                      ENVISAGE 3D FEATURE LIST
>
> Modeler: Workstation grade, hybrid spline/vertex editor with high speed redraw
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  what is this?  better that personal computer
Command:
               grade, yet not as good as super computer grade?  Seriously,
               what is a hybrid spline/vertex object?  Can you describe this
               more?  Are these splines rendered or do they get transformed
               into vertices and edges for rendering?

>          Four view using plan, elevation and interactive perspective view
>          Individual models up to 7 million polygons, edges, or faces
                     ^^how do splines fit into this count?

>          Automatic construction of models from plan and elevation profiles
Command:
>          Deformation modeling with Shaper and Magnet tools
>          Boolean subtractive modeling and intersection
>          Lofting of non-parallel cross-sections with different vertice counts
            ^^if this is what I think it is...cool

>          Welding: seam and crease specification and control
>          Built-in procedural spirals and helices
>          Path extrusion with size changes
                 ^^cool, how about rotations?

Command:
>          Type in ATM fonts
                     ^ are these postscript?

>          Automatic fill of enclosed polygons or to a specified point
                 ^fill with what?  is this a triangle based renderer like
                       Imagine?  Does it allow for polygons?

>          Automatic beveling and roundovers
>          Height fields using image maps to create models, terrains, etc.
>          Mathematical surface generation
Command:
>          Various explodes and shatters
>          Equal facility with organic or geometric forms
              ^^whats this?  Equal what?

>          Interactive real time rotation and scaling
>          Selection by any attribute including colors, textures, etc.
>          Tracing of GIF images
>          Hierarchical naming and linking of models
>
> Rendering: High speed Phong rendering - render 1 to 3 minutes per frame
Command:
>            Image mapping with up to 32 maps per model
>            Bump mapping
>            Reflection and environment mapping
>            Glass, mirrors, and reflections
>            Procedural textures with preview
>            Automatic Shadow casting
>            Unlimited number of lights
>            Glows
               ^^  whats this?
            How about visible light sources?
Command:

>            Ambient, point, spot - lights selectable with or without shadows
>            Hidden line wireframe with adjustable detail resolution
>            Rich high resolution renderings up to 5,000 x 5,000 pixels
>            Five selectable levels of anti-aliasing
>            Generation of FLI and FLC files
>            Optional rendering modules for SGI, Sun, DECStation, and VAX workstations
>
> Animation: Professional timeline editor
>            Interactive real time frame control
Command:
      How about field rendering?

>            Real time preview without need for pre-calculation
>            Skeletonal animation
>            Comprehensive morphing
              ^^^ what is comprehensive about it?  Can you go from/to 2
                    completely different objects(unlike Imagine?)

>            Dynamic fluid surfaces (ripple and oceanic wave generation)
>            Animated ground plane
Command:
>            Animated FLI and FLC textures for movies within movies
>            Graphic velocity and position controls for ease-in and ease-out
>            Interactive spotlight and camera cone tracking
>            Multiple cameras
>            User customizable bounding boxes
>            Automated special effects (modulation, springs, shaking, etc)
>            Open architecture for 3rd party plug-in effects and textures
>

Tom Setzer
Command:
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5805 Re:  Work area size
11/23/93 13:01 28/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> How can various graphics boards promote Imagine to larger work areas but this
> can't be done with the stock chipsets?

Good question.  Related topic: a while back I noted that if you use a
mode promotion utility, Imagine gets flaky when promoting to bigger
resolutions.  However, I discovered last night that if you patch the
binary to increase the resolution, you can run in anything you want and
it doesn't exhibit the same flakyness.  I tried up to 1024x768, and it
works fine (assuming you are doing some generic mode promotion such as
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everything->SUPER72 or everything->EGS).  I think somebody else
discovered this a long time ago, but, being a slowpoke, I just got
around to trying it it.

Having the extra resolution is *really* nice, esp for complex objects in
the detail editor.  The standard tiny little 640x400 just doesn't
compare.  There was a note about the bytes to patch in an IML mailing
from a number of months ago.  Its probably in the archives somewhere.
Grep for "bytes".

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You'd figure Impulse could just modify their code and let us use the
display database.  Its a trivial code change.  Bet it could be done in
10 minutes tops.

Nah.  That'd make too much sense.  Kinda like using the actual ISL
requester instead of inventing your own for no apparent reason.

  - steve
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5806
11/23/93 18:33 11/ [e-mail]@unix.portal.com
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Hi Everyone..


Has everybody out there got Imagine 2.9 or 3.0
Or am I the only Pleb who doesn't have my upgrade yet..

Can anybody point me onto who I can ask this question to ???

Graeme Mc Donough

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5807 Imagine morphing
11/23/93 18:55 11/ [e-mail] (Roy Park)
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>              ^^^ what is comprehensive about it?  Can you go from/to 2
>                    completely different objects(unlike Imagine?)

Wait a sec... I thought Imagine's morph require two objects with same number
of points and surfaces.  Isn't it?  Or, is this new in 2.9?

----
Roy Park
[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5808 Re: Re: Long Render Times
11/24/93 11:04 14/ "Breno A. Silva" <[e-mail]>
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>slow it is about 15 mins per frame. Although, it's not nearly as fast on
>my friend's 400, I wonder why?

Hey, I thought just the 33X25 Mhz would be enough to make your render much
faster, but with the burst mode of the A4K disabled... it should be TWICE
or THRICE :) faster!
Maybe his A4k has a G-Force 040 33Mhz for the 3000 installed on his cpu
slot... Anybody already confirmed if that's possible?
Was the 68040II/66Mhz already released? The 486DX2/66 are indecently faster,
and I'm starting to urge speed... Will the WARPs ever come to us?
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Lots of question... quite few answers...

Breno A. Silva ([e-mail])
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5809 Re: Imagine morphing
11/23/93 23:43 10/ j#d#[e-mail] (J. Moore)
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Cr> >              ^^^ what is comprehensive about it?  Can you go from/to 2
Cr> >                    completely different objects(unlike Imagine?)

Cr> Wait a sec... I thought Imagine's morph require two objects with same
Cr> number of points and surfaces.  Isn't it?  Or, is this new in 2.9?

No, he said, "unlike Imagine".  In other words, Imagine needs the same
number of points, but does this other program?

 * Q-Blue 0.93 [NR] *
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5810 Morphing improvement!!
11/24/93 16:02 11/ [e-mail] (Roy Park)
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Someone oughtta tell Impulse that the morphying feature should  be improved
in next release (post 3.0) of Imagine.  I've just had it with equal-point,
equal-face object morphing!

Maybe a third party company can do this instead?

----
Roy Park
[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5811 Particle Questions
11/25/93 09:28 30/ [e-mail] (Daniel T. Edwards)
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Has anyone had any success with the particle F/X?

Remember "Particle Dreams" (an animation seen in "Beyond the Mind's Eye")

I'd like to do something like that...

I just want the particles to fall to a z plane then disappear.
I also (at the same time) want them to move in x.
Is it true that this thing (giant requestor) doesn't do parabolas?
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I guess it would be easier to have a new effect: "Launch"
... where you set the Z(direction of launch) and POWER(apparent
power of launch) and LANDINGZ(a Global,or local, Z parameter for
a plane at which the particles stop)  it would be nice if this
dream F/X had some dispersion and some bouncing too.

Anyway, particles look like a lot of fun if I could just write my own
F/X.

Command:
Happily using Imagine 2.9 on a 700x462 screen without special hardware...
Email me for details on how you can too.
 ____________________________________________________________
/                                                            \
| Amiga 2000                James R. Walker                  |
| 2MB Chip             [e-mail]           |
| 18MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /                                              |
| 68040 33Mhz |Heinlein,Rand,Clarke,Adams,Asimov,Niven,Worley|
\____________________________________________________________/
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5812 Re: Morphing improvement!!
11/25/93 10:03 33/ Daniel Jr Murrell <[e-mail]>
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>
> Someone oughtta tell Impulse that the morphying feature should  be improved
> in next release (post 3.0) of Imagine.  I've just had it with equal-point,
> equal-face object morphing!

Hehe.  Calm down Roy.  Non-similar object morphing is not that easy to do.  As
far as I know, not even Wavefront can morph dissimilar objects.
>
> Maybe a third party company can do this instead?

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Yes, that seems more along the lines of Interchange Plus or something similar.
Having such a feature built in to Imagine would probably make the program a lot
bigger.  It's not just a matter of making the face and point count match up, but
you also have to make the points and faces reasonably correspond to one another.
You might have faces passing through the object, turning inside out, etc. if say
face 123 on one object is in a totally different relative area than face 123 of
the target object.  You'd have to have some kind of algorithm that would resort
the faces to be in the same general area of both objects.  I'd hate to have to
program something like that, and since Imagine calculates the morphs per frame,
your rendering times would take a serious hit.  I think Morphus maybe can do
Command:
something similar, but I don't know how good the results are, and I think it
makes a lot of in-between objects as well, defeating the purpose.  There's
simpler things that need work in Imagine than that.

Ok, a question:
Has anyone tried that lens flare texture with 2.9 yet?  How does it look, render
etc.?  Do you have to trace to get the right effect?  And do you attach the
texture to a light?  Does it look cheesy, like the example I saw in an ad for
Aladdin?  Could someone upload a few example pictures?  Just wondering, and thanks.

Command:
Dan
[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5813 Re: Particle Questions
11/25/93 17:42 32/ [e-mail]
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On Thu, 25 Nov 1993, Daniel T. Edwards wrote:

> I just want the particles to fall to a z plane then disappear.
        Can be done

> I also (at the same time) want them to move in x.
        They do that too

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> Is it true that this thing (giant requestor) doesn't do parabolas?

        The way the particles disperse is very artificial.  They have a
tendancy to form up into regular rows that look like Lisajous(sp?) curves
if used on a sphere.

> I guess it would be easier to have a new effect: "Launch"
> ... where you set the Z(direction of launch) and POWER(apparent
> power of launch) and LANDINGZ(a Global,or local, Z parameter for
> a plane at which the particles stop)  it would be nice if this
Command:
> dream F/X had some dispersion and some bouncing too.

        You can orient the object axis to point upwards so that the
particles disperse up and out before falling back down and bouncing.

        While not nearly as powerful as Real 3D, the new particles are
still relatively diverse and usefull.  The randomizing of how the
particles disperse really needs to be fixed, or a work-around found.  If
particles simply fall and bounce, without wind, it looks similar to waves
of sand in the desert, or a Japanes rock garden.
Command:


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5814 Re: Morphing improvement!!
11/25/93 18:35 15/ [e-mail]
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On Thu, 25 Nov 1993, Daniel Jr Murrell wrote:

> Ok, a question:
> Has anyone tried that lens flare texture with 2.9 yet?  How does it look, render
> etc.?  Do you have to trace to get the right effect?  And do you attach the
> texture to a light?  Does it look cheesy, like the example I saw in an ad for
> Aladdin?  Could someone upload a few example pictures?  Just wondering, and thanks.


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        I have put a copy of "flare.default.jpg" in the Imagine section of
wuarchive.  It is the default lense flare settings placed on a flat, white
disk.  I'm not too impressed myself.


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5815 PS fonts for Imagine 2.9
11/27/93 14:58 22/ [e-mail] (Daniel T. Edwards)
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Does anyone know of a good place to find PostScript type 1 fonts?
Imagine 2.9 supposedly loads and interprets them.
The pamphlet (if you can call it that) says that the proper
type of font will have an extension of ".pfb"
I've looked on wuarchive for some, but didn't find any.
Should I be looking in the Mac or Pc directories?
It looks like the spline editoe will be of great use once I
can feed it.

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Happily using Imagine 2.9 on a 700 x 462 screen without special
hardware... Email me to learn how you can too.

 ____________________________________________________________
/                                                            \
| Amiga 2000                James R. Walker                  |
| 2MB Chip             [e-mail]           |
| 18MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /                                              |
Command:
| 68040 33Mhz |Heinlein,Rand,Clarke,Adams,Asimov,Niven,Worley|
\____________________________________________________________/
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5816 Lens flare (was RE: 3DS Vs. Imagine speed)
11/27/93 16:46 7/ [e-mail] (Charles Blaquiere)
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>> I wonder if the flare would re-orient itself to face the camera as
>> long as the light was in the camera's field of view, regardless of
>> how much camera/light movement there was?

Just add an Align bar to the flare object, and track it to the camera.
That, and making the object Bright to shield it from any lighting
problems, should do the trick.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5817 Re: Field Rendering
11/27/93 16:43 36/ [e-mail] (Charles Blaquiere)
Lines 1 to 10 of 36 (27%)
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>>1] Although this can't be done within Imagine, has anyone experimented
with >>doing so through one of the image processing programs using
arexx?

Imagemaster has a couple of functions used to combine and extract
separate fields into one interlaced image; these were created with
X-Specs 3-D glasses in mind, but they allow any program to do field
rendering.

1) Halve the vertical resolution of your renderer.
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2) Double the total number of frames in the animation.

3) Start rendering.

4) Start an ARexx macro which will wait for **pairs** of frames to be
rendered, then load each one and combine them. The composite image is
what gets recorded to tape of compiled into your animation.

Unfortunately, Imagemaster has no ARexx call for its "X-Specs
Command:
Interleave" function. A call to Black Belt Systems may be useful,
although Imagine users can either use 2.9 or wait for 3.0, depending
whether field rendering is in 2.9 or not.

  >>2] If so, since there would be no time saved during rendering, would
the >>savings be passed on to the actual memory used for an animation?
Correct me >>if I'm wrong, but that would seem to be a good way to
economize on memory >>usage for those creating animations to be played
back in memory, thus longer >>anims using less RAM (for those of us who
are stuck being memory conscious). >>;-)
Command:

Since you're rendering twice as many frames, but with only half the
vertical resolution, the effects nearly balance each other out. Of
course, there's additional loading time for objects in the second frame,
plus interleaving time if you found a way (or reason) to use an external
image processing program.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5818 Lens flare (was RE: 3DS Vs. Imagine speed)
11/27/93 19:18 27/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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[ stuff about the new lens flare in 2.9 ]

It always seemed to me that one ought to be able to add decent lens
flare as a post-processing step.  Since lens flare happens inside the
"camera" it can't appear in back of another object, so you don't have to
worry about that.  Seems like you could just point out the light sources
to some sort of post-processor and let it put the lens flare effect in
for you.  Getting the post processor to do a reasonable job might take
some effort, though.  But I bet it can be done.
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Seems like the perfect job for an ImageFX ARexx script.  Wouldn't slow
down your rendering that way.  Maybe I'll give it a shot sometime.
It would only be useful for still frames of course; for an animation
it'd be easier to let the renderer take care of it (assuming you have
one which can).

Speaking of ARexx scripts, there was a bug in the one I posted here
before (Rain.ifx).  I was doing bounds checking on the rain slant
parameter incorrectly, which means you couldn't make the rain fall to
Command:
the left with a negative slant parameter.  Replace line 100 with this:

   rain.slant   = max(min(result.7,  40), -40)

That'll fix it.  Sorry.

  - steve
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5819 Re: Lens flare (was RE: 3
11/28/93 00:24 12/ j#d#[e-mail] (J. Moore)
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Ko> It always seemed to me that one ought to be able to add decent lens
Ko> flare as a post-processing step.  Since lens flare happens inside the
Ko> "camera" it can't appear in back of another object, so you don't have to
Ko> worry about that.  Seems like you could just point out the light sources
Ko> to some sort of post-processor and let it put the lens flare effect in
Ko> for you.  Getting the post processor to do a reasonable job might take
Ko> some effort, though.  But I bet it can be done.

That IS how 3D Studio's lens flare is done -- it's part of an add-on
module and it does it post-process.
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 * Q-Blue 0.93 [NR] *
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5820
11/29/93 06:07 18/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> 4) Start an ARexx macro which will wait for **pairs** of frames to be
> rendered, then load each one and combine them. The composite image is

> Unfortunately, Imagemaster has no ARexx call for its "X-Specs
> Interleave" function.

I bet you could do it the brute force way with any of the "Big 3".
Instead of having a dedicated ARexx call to interleave buffers, write
your own in ARexx using a whole bunch of little rectangular cut and
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pastes.  It'd be a little slow, but you might be able to make it work.
Alternatively, I think most of the common image processing programs
these days allow you to write an external "hook" program in C, from
which you can modify the program's image buffer(s).  That would give you
extra speed over ARexx.  (At least ImageFX allows this; I recall the
others do also).

  - steve
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5821 Re: PS fonts for Imagine 2.9
11/29/93 08:04 18/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 18 (55%)
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PS fonts...

Happily using Imagine 2.9 on a 700 x 462 screen without special
hardware... Email me to learn how you can too.

     Yes please tell us how!
     ---------
     Location for fonts: wcarchive.cdrom.com
                         /pub/aminet/text/font/fonts_1.lha  600k
                                               fonts_2.lha
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                                               fonts_3.lha
     These are type 1, but you may have to rename them with the proper
     extension (.pfb?).  There are other type 1 fonts here as well.
     Also, check out your local bbs's.

     I noticed that not all fonts will load.  Sometimes there's an
     error message, sometimes just an axis appears with no text.
     Anyone report this yet?
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5822 Re: Field Rendering
11/29/93 08:42 46/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Lines 1 to 10 of 46 (21%)
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> >>1] Although this can't be done within Imagine, has anyone experimented
> with >>doing so through one of the image processing programs using
> arexx?
>
> Imagemaster has a couple of functions used to combine and extract
> separate fields into one interlaced image; these were created with
> X-Specs 3-D glasses in mind, but they allow any program to do field
> rendering.
>
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> 1) Halve the vertical resolution of your renderer.
>
You don't want to do this.  You want to render an interlaced image, eliminate
even scan lines on odd frames and odd scan lines on even frames.  So you need
software that not only combines two images, but separates them as well.  Your
solution would cause an up and down jittery look, because you have in effect,
shifted the second image rendered down by one scan line.  And if you are
trying to create field rendered animations you are probably looking for
quality, and the jitters would not be acceptable.

Command:
[stuff deleted]

>
>   >>2] If so, since there would be no time saved during rendering, would
> the >>savings be passed on to the actual memory used for an animation?
> Correct me >>if I'm wrong, but that would seem to be a good way to
> economize on memory >>usage for those creating animations to be played
> back in memory, thus longer >>anims using less RAM (for those of us who
> are stuck being memory conscious). >>;-)
>
Command:
> Since you're rendering twice as many frames, but with only half the
> vertical resolution, the effects nearly balance each other out. Of

Since as above, you must render the full interlaced frames, and twice as
many of them, it will take around TWICE as long.  THAT is what field rendering
buys you! Field rendering will allow you to achieve this effect in about
the half the time it takes to do it(field rendering) manually.

So, is there any software that can take an interlaced image and seperate it
into 2 images, even scanlines and odd scanlines?  And then add 'em back?
Command:

Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5823 Re: Lens flare (was RE: 3DS Vs. Imagine speed)
11/29/93 08:54 27/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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>
> [ stuff about the new lens flare in 2.9 ]
>
> It always seemed to me that one ought to be able to add decent lens
> flare as a post-processing step.  Since lens flare happens inside the
> "camera" it can't appear in back of another object, so you don't have to
> worry about that.  Seems like you could just point out the light sources
> to some sort of post-processor and let it put the lens flare effect in
> for you.  Getting the post processor to do a reasonable job might take
> some effort, though.  But I bet it can be done.
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Yeah, I thought about that. You'll notice on Lightwave renderings, the
flare seems to change based on the angle of the camera to the light souce
(or the position of the light source in the frame).  It seems Imagines
lens flair would have a hard time simulating this.  And if the light source in
Imagine is slightly off the screen, do you still see the lens flair?  I would
imagine you would.  Yuck.  Yeah, post processing would probably be the best,
calculating the flair based on the position of the light source.  Perhapes one
could use Imagines staging files to determine the true position of the light
source.  Let us know when you are through coding:)
Command:


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5824 WHY?
11/29/93 15:32 16/ user <[e-mail]>
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Why am I receiving imagine mailing list information from:
[e-mail]

I need to discontinue receiving all mailing list items at:
[e-mail]
and start receiving them at:
[e-mail]

I already sent a request to imagine-request@paramax...... , but have
no idea as to why / where to go on shell.portal.com
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Thanks for NOT flaming me, as I am confused as to where/why I am getting
this feed.

Jeff Owens
([e-mail])
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5825 Re: Particle Questions
11/29/93 16:16 15/ [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)
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At  9:28 AM 11/25/93 -0800, Daniel T. Edwards wrote:
>Happily using Imagine 2.9 on a 700x462 screen without special hardware...
>Email me for details on how you can too.

This would be a great thing to post to the general Imagine mailing list.
Please do.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy                                     [e-mail]
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 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.
 Bellevue, Washington                                          [phone]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5826 REACH OUT N TOUCH SOMEONE
12/1/93 11:39 132/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Salutations Renderoids!   :-)


Hope Turkey Day was as enjoyable for all of you as it was
for me. I had enough tryptophan in me for a 3 day coma.

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Command:
ZZZZzzzzzzzzz

------=======--------=====------=====-----======-----======-----

WHERE'S MY IML???   Perhaps you've been asking yourself this
over the last day or two. Mailings have been sporadic
at best, and non-existant at worst. After a bunch of 15-20
post days, it was kind of a letdown to see trouble arise
in the mailing system.  What happened was this...
we are moving the files all over to another system.
Command:
The new system will be keeping the same name, so you
don't have to change anything at your end. However, in the
transition period, they were trying to have TWO systems
running transparently with the same name. This meant there
were aliases and temporary files and directories strung
out all over the place and it wound up getting a little
hairy.  There was also a small matter of installing a new
version of Solaris (OS) on the new system. New hardware,
new software, new mailer software.... guess I can see why
we had a slight glitch. I *think* things are about ready
Command:
to go back on keel now, so if you mailed something to the
list within the last day or two and it never showed up...
chances are it may have been banished to the electronic
trashcan. The mailer should be ready again shortly. Thanks
for your patience.

------==========--------==========-------=========--------========

I thought I should clear something up, in case it confused
anyone else. If you subscribe, unsubscribe, or change addresses
Command:
at the usual-


[e-mail]


account, it will take effect everywhere. Sometimes there are
things still in the queue, or one site might be a day or
two behind the others... but everything works off a
master list I keep here, so don't worry, things will
Command:
straighten themselves out. Any slowdown in the few days
was caused by the above system shuffling. You don't need to worry
about additional UNSUBSCRIBE messages to the

[e-mail]   account.


-----------==========----------=========--------=========-----


Command:
I am forwarding a copy of all the IML postings since
Impulse dropped off the list to Mike H., and he is going to
read the posts so he will be up to speed when we get them
(Impulse) back online here (soon).  I will let you know
shortly before we are rejoined by Impulse.

----------=====-----------======----------======-------------

Regarding Byte by Bytes's recent offer to members of the
IML for a reduced price on the 1.1 version of Envisage 3D...
Command:

I would encourage PC-based rendermaniacs to check it out.

I am very happy with the included documentation. It is
refreshing to immediately get into the meat of a rendering
program without all the floundering in a steep learning
curve. It has a fairly nice interface (it seems to me that
virtually all rendering package user interfaces could be
improved), it's rendering speed is quick, and it's output
is quite good.
Command:

It's a full-featured package that I got a chance to monkey
around with for a while. It has a nice feel to it and
I would encourage you to speak with Doug Kelly ([e-mail])
for his more extensive experiements with this product and
be sure to ask him about his upcoming review of the package
in an upcoming issue of a commercial magazine.

While the $995 list price sets it above the budget of many
hobbyist 3D users, the reduced offer of $500 to IML readers
Command:
makes it a realistic alternative or even a supplementary
product with ImaginePC to some PC rendering hobbyists, and
is a comparative bargain for the professional PC-based 3D user.

I would like to thank Byte by Byte for making this offer
available to the rendering fans of the IML. Naturally, any
special pricing from any relevant manufacturers for IML
subscribers is appreciated during this...

THE SEASON OF BROTHERHOOD AND GIVING   ;-)  heh heh
Command:

------====-----======----=====----====----====-----====-----

Shortly after the mailer is up and running smoothly,
I will be sending out the IML directory again for the
first time in a while. I think we are now back up to
420 sites or so.
-------=========------=======-------========----========-----


Command:
Anyways, that's about it from here in the beautiful
and stately halls of Unisys. I made it through the
November layoff massacre... and now I will begin
looking for a safe hiding spot to try and avoid the
next butchery which is expected to be in January or March.

Hmmmmm, maybe this suspended ceiling tile panel can be
lifted out......   shhhhhhh


Command:
;-)




Dave Wickard  [phone]     "Hey, these almonds sure are good!"
[e-mail]         "Yeah... they were even better
[e-mail]         until Grandma sucked all the
[e-mail]         chocolate off of em."
[e-mail]
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5827 Re: Field Rendering
12/1/93 12:18 17/ Andrew Nunn <[e-mail]>
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Hi Thomas,

On Nov 29 you wrote:
>
> So, is there any software that can take an interlaced image and seperate it
> into 2 images, even scanlines and odd scanlines?  And then add 'em back?
>
ADPro has two Operators called Deinterlace and Interlace. The Deinterlace
operator separates the odd and even lines into two pictures in the upper
and lower half of the screen. The Crop Image Op could then be used save
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the top or lower half. This could probably be done through Arexx.
Interlace does the reverse!

Its likely that the other Image processing packages probably have similar
functions.

Andrew
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5828 IML DIRECTORY
12/1/93 12:08 415/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5829 unsubscribe
12/2/93 09:09 3/ paul hourmouzis <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 3 of 3 (100%)
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Please unsubscribe me!!!
Thankyou

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5830 Texture Generator
12/1/93 23:22 12/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
Lines 1 to 10 of 12 (83%)
-----
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-----
Anybody know where I can find M. Vitolini's program of the subject heading?
Any help would be most appreciated, especially an ftp site/path :)
Virtually yours,
Michel

                                  ||
                                __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
[e-mail] __  __ are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
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                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5831 Is there a ttddd2geo?
12/2/93 02:33 8/ gowdy%glphv8.dnet@d1..sp.paramax.com (Stephen J.Gowdy)
Lines 1 to 8 of 8 (100%)
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I think the subject says it all. I'm looking for a program to convert
my Imagine objects to geo format for Scenery Animator to use. Anyone
got one?

                                        regards,

                                        Stephen.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5832 C-source that repairs uncomplete IFF24's
12/2/93 04:20 140/ [e-mail] (Goeran Ehrsson)
Lines 1 to 10 of 140 (7%)
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Hi, I sent this mail last week but I don't think it made it out
to the public, so I'll send in again.

I was rendering ONE 1024x768 frame in trace mode and after FOUR
DAYS of rendering the power distributor switched off the power for
an hour or so. Arghhh!!!   The frame was only 75% complete and could
not be loaded into ADPro since the chunk sizes in the IFF24 file was
not correct. With a little reverse engineering I wrote the
following program that repairs an incomplete IFF24 file generated
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by Imagine 2.0. It's a quick hack but it works (at least for me).

- Goran

PS. If I reduce the frame size to 320x256 I still need 50days for
    this 100frames christmas animation, and it's December 2nd today.
    Do you think we can move christmas till the end of January?  :-)

--
[e-mail], Goran Ehrsson, Abalon AB, Box 11129, 161 11 BROMMA, SWEDEN
Command:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
/**********************************************************************
** fixIFF24.c
**
** A very quick hack that fixes an uncompleted IFF24 file  generated
** by Imagine 2.0.  I wrote this when my 7days rendering was
** interrupted by powerfail on day 5, 75% was complete!
** I didn't want to wait another 7days, so instead this little
** program fixed the chunksize values that where incorrect.
** The FORM-size is 00000000 and so is the BODY-size, so they must be
Command:
** calculated and replaced.
**
** Usage: fixIFF24 infile outfile
**
** Feel free to use it, it "may" work for you too.
**
** November 25 1993, Goran Ehrsson, Animal Island, Sweden.
**
** BTW: The picture looked awful, it was not worth to write this program. :-)
*/
Command:
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <sys/stat.h>

main(int argc, char** argv)
{
        FILE* ifp;
        FILE* ofp;
        struct stat st;
        long size, pos, chunkID;
Command:
        long buf;

        if(argc < 3)
        {
                fprintf(stderr,
                        "usage: %s <uncomplete IFF24 file> <new file>\n", argv[0]);
                exit(20);
        }

        if(stat(argv[1], &st) != 0)
Command:
        {
                fprintf(stderr, "%s: cannot stat <%s>\n", argv[0], argv[1]);
                exit(20);
        }

        size = st.st_size - (sizeof(long) * 2);

        if((ifp = fopen(argv[1], "r")) == NULL)
        {
                fprintf(stderr, "%s: cannot open file <%s>\n", argv[0], argv[1]);
Command:
                exit(20);
        }

        if((ofp = fopen(argv[2], "w")) == NULL)
        {
                fprintf(stderr, "%s: cannot open file <%s>\n", argv[0], argv[1]);
                fclose(ifp);
                exit(20);
        }

Command:
        fprintf(ofp, "FORM");
        fwrite(&size, sizeof(long), 1, ofp);    /* FORM size */
        fprintf(ofp, "ILBM");

        fseek(ifp, 3 * sizeof(long), 0);
        fread(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ifp);
        if(buf != 0x494D5254)   /* IMRT */
        {
                fprintf(stderr, "%s: %s is not an Imagine 2.0 generated IFF24 file\n",
                        argv[0], argv[1]);
Command:
                exit(20);
        }
        fwrite(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ofp);     /* IMRT */

        fread(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ifp);      /* size */
        pos = ftell(ifp) + buf;
        fwrite(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ofp);
        fread(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ifp);      /* creation/start time */
        fwrite(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ofp);
        buf += 86400;
Command:
        fwrite(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ofp);     /* faked stop time 24hours later */
        fread(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ifp);

        for(;;)
        {
                if(ftell(ifp) >= pos)
                {
                        if(fread(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ifp) == 0)      /* Chunk ID */
                                break;
                        fwrite(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ofp);
Command:
                        chunkID = buf;
                        fread(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ifp);      /* Chunk size */
                        pos = ftell(ifp);

                        if(chunkID == 0x424F4459)       /* BODY */
                        {
                                printf("Found the BODY, copying data...\n");
                                size = st.st_size - pos;
                                fwrite(&size, sizeof(long), 1, ofp);
                                pos = pos + size;
Command:
                        }
                        else
                        {
                                pos = pos + buf;
                                fwrite(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ofp);
                        }
                }
                else
                {
                        if(fread(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ifp) == 0)      /* data */
Command:
                                break;
                        fwrite(&buf, sizeof(long), 1, ofp);
                }
        }

        fclose(ofp);
        fclose(ifp);
        exit(0);
}

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5833 Re: C-source that repairs uncomplete IFF24's
12/2/93 05:04 31/ <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 31 (32%)
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On Dec 2,  1:20pm, Goeran Ehrsson wrote:
> Subject: C-source that repairs uncomplete IFF24's
>
> I was rendering ONE 1024x768 frame in trace mode and after FOUR
> DAYS of rendering the power distributor switched off the power for
> an hour or so. Arghhh!!!   The frame was only 75% complete and could
> not be loaded into ADPro since the chunk sizes in the IFF24 file was
> not correct. With a little reverse engineering I wrote the
> following program that repairs an incomplete IFF24 file generated
> by Imagine 2.0. It's a quick hack but it works (at least for me).
-----
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>
> - Goran
>

FYI, as this kind of things may happen (especially when the machine crashes
after 80% of the rendering), I use to load the image in TVPaint. It returns
"Bad EOF", but loads the image !

Robin
--
Command:
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer                Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                       Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                       Fax :  [phone]



Command:

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5834 (Fwd) Invalid message envelope information
12/2/93 05:40 34/ <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 34 (29%)
-----
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-----
On Dec 2,  1:20pm, Goeran Ehrsson wrote:
> Subject: C-source that repairs uncomplete IFF24's
>
> I was rendering ONE 1024x768 frame in trace mode and after FOUR
> DAYS of rendering the power distributor switched off the power for
> an hour or so. Arghhh!!!   The frame was only 75% complete and could
> not be loaded into ADPro since the chunk sizes in the IFF24 file was
> not correct. With a little reverse engineering I wrote the
> following program that repairs an incomplete IFF24 file generated
> by Imagine 2.0. It's a quick hack but it works (at least for me).
-----
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>
> - Goran
>

FYI, as this kind of things may happen (especially when the machine crashes
after 80% of the rendering), I use to load the image in TVPaint. It returns
"Bad EOF", but loads the image !

Robin

Command:


--
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer                Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                       Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                       Fax :  [phone]
Command:




Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5835 C-source that repairs uncomplete IFF24's
12/2/93 06:01 15/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
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-----


> an hour or so. Arghhh!!!   The frame was only 75% complete and could
> not be loaded into ADPro since the chunk sizes in the IFF24 file was
[program to repair incomplete IFF file ]

Is there any way to get Imagine to restart without rendering the entire
frame again?  I've had times where I was running a long render and
managed to crash my computer while doing something else.  (Usually
program development.  Never do this while rendering :-) ).  Repairing
-----
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the file is one thing, but you've still got an incomplete file after you
do it.  Is there any support in 2.9 for starting the render at a certain
point?

  - steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5836 Imagine29 - COOL textures and other junk
12/2/93 14:23 34/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Lines 1 to 10 of 34 (29%)
-----
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-----


Hey!

Has anyone else out ther started messing around with Imagine 29 textures?  I
just starting printing the docs out right now. (41 pages for the font size
I chose).

        It sounds like there are some really nice ones in there.  There area
couple that are based on creating windows....ie:  Instead of having to make
-----
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all these tiny rectangles etc....for spaceships, buildings you just use
this ..

        It works pretty well!  All it does is make part of your object
transparent.  So, for a building, you would make your grey bldg, then add
this texture.  Then you would duplicate the shape of the building, but make
it a little smaller and stick it just inside.  Make the smaller building
bright white(no texture) and you're done.

        I am also working on this cool robot (mech warrior anim).  I
Command:
started the project a while ago...but was unable to use the cycle editor
due to its habit of liking axis all messed up.  Thank god for the new
states thing!  Now...you just group you object as you want.  It handles any
change in group including moving around parts, etc.....no constraints!

        I'll upload some pics soon.

        Mike C.

--
Command:
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail] - CWRU, Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
| "It's not how many hours you work, but how much work you put in an hour" |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5837 Brain object?
12/2/93 17:41 13/ [e-mail] (Phil Martin u)
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
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-----
Hi. I'm in need of some pictures of the human brain for a project I'm
doing at school. Ideally, I'd like to get an object I can render in
Imagine (I got 2.0 on the coverdisk, yeah...) so that I can do whatever
I want with it.

If anyone out there knows the whereabouts of a half-decent (or I'm
willing to go as low as one-third-decent) brain object, I'd really
appreciate hearing about it as soon as possible (The project's due
on Monday)

-----
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Thanks in advance,

Phil Martin.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5838 picture u/l'ed
12/2/93 18:44 16/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 16 (62%)
-----
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-----

Hi,

I u/l'ed these to aminet:

  M_Castle1.lha  M_Castle1.readme
  M_Castle2.lha  M_Castle2.readme

(They'll appear under pix/trace.  There is a JPEG and a HAM8 version of
each, in 1280x1024 and 896x628 respectively).
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These was some discussion on the IML a while back about techniques for
getting terrain objects into Imagine.  The above pictures do this, to, I
think, a reasonable effect.  (Not a half bad castle either, IMHO).

  - steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5839 Sanyo VCR
12/2/93 23:51 11/ [e-mail] (Greg Pringle)
Lines 1 to 10 of 11 (90%)
-----
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-----

  I think this one got mulched, so I'll repost:

   Does anyone have any more information about that sanyo VCR
mentioned in the Impulse newsletter awhile ago? The one that Imagine
3.0 is supposed to be able to control, allowing single frame recording?

   (does Imagine 2.9 support it yet?)


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  Greg
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5840 Re: C-source that repairs uncomplete IFF24's
12/2/93 23:48 16/ [e-mail] (Greg Pringle)
Lines 1 to 10 of 16 (62%)
-----
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-----

> > an hour or so. Arghhh!!!   The frame was only 75% complete and could
> > not be loaded into ADPro since the chunk sizes in the IFF24 file was
> [program to repair incomplete IFF file ]
>
>  Is there any way to get Imagine to restart without rendering the entire
>  frame again?  I've had times where I was running a long render and
>
>     - steve

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  Time to dig out understanding Imagine! You can tilt the camera 180 degrees
and render the missing bottom portion. Then load into your favourite image
processor to flip and join with the top.

  Greg

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5841 unsubscribe
12/3/93 04:58 15/ [e-mail] (1127 Gandalf and his axe !)
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
-----
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-----
please unsubscribe me, and have a merry christmas..


--

*******************************************************************************
 .                                                                  Information
Pal Ditlefsen Ekran  aka 1127 Gandalf (ESD Amiga)                    Wants to
[e-mail]                                                 Be free.
In real world > Olav Dahlsgate 47, 9501 Eidskjosen, Norway.
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listning to Electric Music(Kraftwerk),Ministry,Front242 and Tangerine Dream
   You are black, I am white, but our shadows are still the like (Tarzan)

The opinions above belongs to me, only me, me, me, me, me, MEEEE !
*******************************************************************************
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5842 Re: Morphing improvement!
12/3/93 07:28 16/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 16 (62%)
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-----

On Thu, 25 Nov 1993, Daniel Jr Murrell wrote:

> Ok, a question:
> Has anyone tried that lens flare texture with 2.9 yet?  How does it look, render
> etc.?  Do you have to trace to get the right effect?  And do you attach the
> texture to a light?  Does it look cheesy, like the example I saw in an ad for
> Aladdin?  Could someone upload a few example pictures?  Just wondering, and thanks.


-----
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        I have put a copy of "flare.default.jpg" in the Imagine section of
wuarchive.  It is the default lense flare settings placed on a flat, white
disk.  I'm not too impressed myself.



Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5843 Re: Particle Questions
12/3/93 07:30 35/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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I don't think this made it to the list the first time, so...


On Thu, 25 Nov 1993, Daniel T. Edwards wrote:

> I just want the particles to fall to a z plane then disappear.
        Can be done

> I also (at the same time) want them to move in x.
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        They do that too

> Is it true that this thing (giant requestor) doesn't do parabolas?

        The way the particles disperse is very artificial.  They have a
tendancy to form up into regular rows that look like Lisajous(sp?) curves
if used on a sphere.

> I guess it would be easier to have a new effect: "Launch"
> ... where you set the Z(direction of launch) and POWER(apparent
Command:
> power of launch) and LANDINGZ(a Global,or local, Z parameter for
> a plane at which the particles stop)  it would be nice if this
> dream F/X had some dispersion and some bouncing too.

        You can orient the object axis to point upwards so that the
particles disperse up and out before falling back down and bouncing.

        While not nearly as powerful as Real 3D, the new particles are
still relatively diverse and usefull.  The randomizing of how the
particles disperse really needs to be fixed, or a work-around found.  If
Command:
particles simply fall and bounce, without wind, it looks similar to waves
of sand in the desert, or a Japanes rock garden.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5844 Particles?
12/3/93 11:52 27/ "Andrew P. Vogel" <[e-mail]>
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Hi everyone!

Hope everyone had a wonderful thanksgiving... Mine was nice, considering the
fact that my wife filed for divorce just 8 days before! :-(

At any rate, was thinking about the PARTICLE effects in Im 2.9. I think they're
a GREAT start, but we need wind that can be controlled (StartFrame, Accel,
Speed, Decel, Direction), and more random-ness in the dispursion of the
particles... Ah well... None of that sounds TOO hard. Perhaps for 3.0?

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What about that SPARKS (is that the right name) program? I saw some animations
for it on WUARCHIVE a while ago - flames and a motorcycle zooming through
some leaves. Is SPARKS for Imagine? If not, what?

I'm liking the SPLINE editor more and more... Don't remember if this is in that
editor or not, but wouldn't it be neat to import an IFF into SPLINE and have it
auto-trace it? Of course, you'd be able to edit the splines later... I think
that could be really neat, if it isn't already!

Looking forward to seeing some more great examples/samples/tutorials/etc for
Command:
3.0!

Does anyone else hope that Impulse will release even _MORE_ textures with 3.0?
How about a Marble texture? Or a better LensFlare?

BTW, we're taking bets on the release date for 3.0. Contact me for odds! :-)

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5845 Imagine PC???
12/3/93 12:39 6/ "Breno A. Silva" <[e-mail]>
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I asked a bunch of questions about Imagine PC 2.9 regarding its video
drivers, resolution, quick render output modes, etc, and nobody answered
that... is everybody here Amiga Imagineers or the PC version is so bad
no one wants to talk about it??

Breno A. Silva ([e-mail])
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5846 Rotation in Img 2.0
12/3/93 13:44 21/ christopher arthur <[e-mail]>
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   I posted this once before, but my subscription didn't kick in yet.  I
don't know if anyone responded.  So here goes again:



    Does anyone know how to rotate an object in Imagine 2.0
without having that annoying flip of the camera?  It happens when I track
object(1) orbiting object(2) with the alignment of object(2).. As soon as
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object(2) rotates more than 90 degrees, the camera flips.  What's another
way to rotate without this phenomenon?
   I want to be able to give object some angular acceleration, so the
rotate 2.0 effect is no good.  I know I could make a cycle object, but I
assume that the interpolation between key frames in linear, so I would have
to make every frame a key frame...yuck.   Any suggestions?

chris

[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5847 Re: Particle Questions
12/3/93 16:25 24/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 29 Nov 1993, Kent Kalnasy wrote:

> At  9:28 AM 11/25/93 -0800, Daniel T. Edwards wrote:
> >Happily using Imagine 2.9 on a 700x462 screen without special hardware...
> >Email me for details on how you can too.
>
> This would be a great thing to post to the general Imagine mailing list.
> Please do.
>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Kent Kalnasy                                     [e-mail]
>  Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.
>  Bellevue, Washington                                          [phone]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Even better. How about incuding this in the Imagine FAQ if it isn't there ?
Command:
Also, can info for PAL users be posted too ?

Nik.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5848 A couple of questions
12/3/93 16:41 18/ Peter Garza <[e-mail]>
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Well, it seems the servers didn't like my letter, so they sent it back
to me.  Here goes again.

1. Am I blind, or do other people not see a difference whether Auto
Dither is on or off?  I can't tell the difference on 320X400 HAM6.
Any ideas?


2. How is working with States compared to the cycle editor?  I really
like the skeletonal control (sorta) that the cycle editor allows.  Is
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States easier, harder, different?  Is it kinda like setting up
different poses for the cycle editor?  Could someone please explain
states a little more?

Thanks for any help

Peter Garza
[e-mail]
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5849 Re: A couple of questions
12/3/93 19:28 37/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
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>
> 1. Am I blind, or do other people not see a difference whether Auto
> Dither is on or off?  I can't tell the difference on 320X400 HAM6.
> Any ideas?


Never used it. can't comment.
>
>
> 2. How is working with States compared to the cycle editor?  I really
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> like the skeletonal control (sorta) that the cycle editor allows.  Is
> States easier, harder, different?  Is it kinda like setting up
> different poses for the cycle editor?  Could someone please explain
> states a little more?

STATES are infinitely better than the cycle. I always hated twisting those
diamonds and trying to set up an object. very counter intuitive! in all
of the years I worked with imagine I was only able to create a handful of
good cycles.

Command:
States are created in the detail editor. in a nutshell: group all of the
objects that will make up the actor. Position and size them. call that
the first state. Now move the pieces of the actor, resize them as needed
and give them new attributes if you wish. assign this as state 2. when all
of the poses are created save the object. load it into the stage. in the
action editor morph the poses in any order you like.

A NOTE TO IMPULSE ON THE SUBJECT OF STATES, SHOULD YOU EVER READ
THIS MESSAGE:
the only apparent advantage the cycle editor has over states is the ability
Command:
to preview the motion of the cycle. with states I have to load into the stage
to preview the motion of a cycle. A mechanism to wireframe a state object
in the detail editor would be most welcome.

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5850 IML files [repost]
12/3/93 23:50 13/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Who's in charge of the IML file section on wuarchive.wustl.edu?

Some files I tried to upload unsuccesfully months ago are still there
and need to be deleted.  Also looks like the /incoming dir needs to be
flushed (files put in the proper /imagine dir.)


Speaking of files, I'd like to see more examples of the particle system.
Can you really make convincing smoke/clouds/fire/plasma/exploding pasta?
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--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5851 MPEGs, please.
12/4/93 11:16 15/ [e-mail] (Phil Martin u)
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Hi. I've been having some fun with mp1.03 on my A4000, but I'm getting
tired of the Vista animations on aminet (Don't get me wrong, they look
great, but I'm ready for something else). So please forgive me if this
isn't really Imagine-related, but I figured there must be people out
there who could direct me to an FTP site with some more interesting
MPEGs to view.

I'd be particularly interested in seeing something from the people
here (always reading about your renderings makes me really curious)
but I'd also like to find some MPEGs of old B&W silent scenes if
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there are any out there.

Thanks in advance for your help in this matter,

Phil Martin.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5852 Essence?
12/3/93 13:01 13/ [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
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So, is the new Essence for 2.9 going to be ready soon?  And if so, how
much will the upgrade to it cost, or will (Since its the Christmas
season.:) Be sent for free to registered Essence owners?

     // Jeff Saffold
   \X/   Amiga User

___
 X MsgView V1.13 [R029] X He who hesitates looses the parking spot.
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*   Cuerna Verde BBS FidoNet Gateway  *     Data/Fax: [phone]      *
*   Pueblo, Colorado USA              *     FidoNet:  1:307/18            *
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5853 re: imagine 3.0 offer in Amiga Format
12/5/93 08:11 11/ Waland J F <[e-mail]>
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>Who told you you have to pay #95 instead of the #75 as stated? I want to buy
>Imagine3.0 through the Amiga Format offer, too. I think this is not very fair
>- printing #75 and requesting #95 - (sure, 95 pounds is quite cheap for it, too
apparently they made a printing error (strange - three times), and a few days
after sending off my order I got a letter in the post explaining they had
made this error and if I still wanted the package could i orgainise the extra
20 pounds (which I did).

jon.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5854 Object Scaling Problems
12/5/93 16:26 18/ Stephen Loughran <[e-mail]>
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Greetings to you all,
    this is my first post to the IML so excuse any extremely dim
questions.

    I am having problems with scaling an object that I have in
Imagine2.0. It is a grouped object consisting of 3 seperate objects. In
the detail editor it seems fine. When i load it into the stage editor
its also ok *BUT* as soon as i try to size it down to a reasonable size
it goes haywire. when i scale it down and save it its ok but then if i
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go to the detail editor and back again to the stage editor it doesnt
keep the same size. it is distorted (in this case way too tall). i am
scaling it in all three directions (x/y/z) so its not that. is there a
bug i should know about or is it something that I'm doing thats really
dim? any help/advice would be greatly received.... ta!

    steve

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5855 Nice deal
12/5/93 09:16 15/ [e-mail] (Ben Scott)
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>  if I still wanted the package could i orgainise the extra
> 20 pounds (which I did).

In this country we call that bait-and-switch...

.                              <<<<Infinite K>>>>

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.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Ben Scott, video animation dilettante and consultant at The Raster Image. |
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| [e-mail], 24 hours a day!/\-----------------------------------|
|---------------------------------------.\ Powered by the mighty Amiga 4000 |
| "Brought to you by 'White Beer'...    `-----------------------------------|
| there's a trailer park of flavor in every bottle!" -  Tom Servo, MST3000  |
`---------------------------------------------------------------------------'
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5856 Re: Object Scaling Problems
12/5/93 09:47 17/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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Scaling an object in the Stage editor doesn't affect the size as it's
saved from the Detail editor.

Also, substituting a modified object into an existing line in the Stage
editor will use the ORIGINAL object's scaling information.

You're better off making sure your object is the right size BEFORE putting
it into the Stage.  If you have to modify it, you're better off deleting
the entire object timeline and starting over.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5857 Imagine Screen Size Modifications
12/5/93 11:30 86/ [e-mail] (Daniel T. Edwards)
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Ok.  Many people mailed me suggesting I post this list to
the whole IML.  When Imagine 3.0 is available I'll repost
an updated list.


If you have any problems with this modification:
1) Don't Blame me for your Guru.
2) Send me E-mail with your config (a2000,040,Retina,etc..)
   I'm curoius to see what causes Imagine to fail
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   with this modification.



Ok, here's how it works...

Get a filezapper type program. (NewZap DPU FileZap Hex etc...)

Look up your version of Imagine on the chart below.
(If your version is not listed, Email me and I'll see if I can
Command:
make one for it.)

Edit the executeable at the bytes indicated in the chart. The block #s and
byte #s are shown in decimal.  The hex numbers in parenthesis are the hex
versions of the block numbers.  The bytes to modify are, of course, in hex.
Replace the resolution you  find there with the resolution you want.  Then
save the new file. (I don't have to remind you to keep a backup of Imagine
on hand!)

Notice that Imagine automaticly doubles the vertical resolution for use in
Command:
interlace mode.  So, if you want vertical resolution of 462 then you must
tell it to give you 231.  (231 = 00E7 in hex)

 Imagine Version # Horizontal                   Vertical

FP       1.1     Block 393 ($189)             Block 83 ($053)
                 Bytes 220 & 221              Bytes 162 & 163
                 From  02    80               From  00    C8
       (Example: To    02    BC = 700 in dec)(To    00    E7 = 231 dec)

Command:
FP       2.0     Block 497 ($1F1)             Block 95 ($05F)
                 Bytes 328 & 329              Bytes 250 & 251
                 From  02    80               From  00    C8

INT PAL  2.0     Block 500 ($1F4)             Block 94 ($05E)
                 Bytes 124 & 125              Bytes 42 & 43
                 From  02   80                From  01   00

FP  PAL  2.0     Block 497 ($1F1)             Block 95 ($05F)
                 Bytes 388 & 389              Bytes 244 & 245
Command:
                 From  02    80               From  01   0

INT      2.9     Block 1561 ($619)            Block 119 ($077)
                 Bytes 486 & 487              Bytes 480 & 481
                 From  02    80               From  00    C8

FP       2.9     Block 1529 ($5F9)            Block 95 ($05F)
                 Bytes 82  & 83               Bytes 168 & 169
                 From  02    80               From  00    C8

Command:
FP  PAL  2.9     Block 1529 ($5F9)            Block 95 ($05F)
                 Bytes 146 & 147              Bytes 162 & 163
                 From  02    80               From  01    00

Impulse told me, in the past, that Imagine is made to run ONLY on a
640 x 400 screen.  I was told that if I changed it, I would do so at my own
peril.  I pass this information on  to you.

One Final Note:  Imagine PC users have a whole different program than Amiga
users.  This modification will not work on the PC version.  I would guess
Command:
that a simmilar modification for the PC version would be more  complicated,
given that VGA modes are more complicated than Amiga modes. I would be very
interested to see someone try though.   Imagine Imagineering on a 486DX2/66
with a 1024 x 768 editor screen. Now imagine Impulse telling you it will
never happen.

Thanks to Juha Kallioinen of Finland for the PAL numbers.

 ____________________________________________________________
/                                                            \
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| Amiga 2000                James R. Walker                  |
| 2MB Chip             [e-mail]           |
| 18MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /                                              |
| 68040 33Mhz |Heinlein,Rand,Clarke,Adams,Asimov,Niven,Worley|
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5858 Size of imagine....
12/5/93 10:58 39/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>
>
>On Mon, 29 Nov 1993, Kent Kalnasy wrote:
>
>> At  9:28 AM 11/25/93 -0800, Daniel T. Edwards wrote:
>> >Happily using Imagine 2.9 on a 700x462 screen without special hardware...
>> >Email me for details on how you can too.
>>
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>> This would be a great thing to post to the general Imagine mailing list.
>> Please do.
>
>Even better. How about incuding this in the Imagine FAQ if it isn't there ?
>Also, can info for PAL users be posted too ?
>
>Nik.
>
>
>
Command:

        Okay...I had the info at one point...but decided not to put it in
the FAQ.  Basically, I wasn't sure if putting info on how to hex edit the
program was a good idea/politically correct.

        However, as sooo many people seem to want this...if someone emails
me the info, I will add it to the FAQ.  Just give me the byte positions,
the new values, and the name of a program you can use to do this...or write
up a full para. if you wish.

Command:
        Thanks.

        Mike C.

--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail] - CWRU, Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
| "It's not how many hours you work, but how much work you put in an hour" |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5859 Re: Imagine Screen Size Modifications
12/5/93 12:13 48/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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On Sun, 5 Dec 1993, Daniel T. Edwards wrote:

> Notice that Imagine automaticly doubles the vertical resolution for use in
> interlace mode.  So, if you want vertical resolution of 462 then you must
> tell it to give you 231.  (231 = 00E7 in hex)
>
>  Imagine Version # Horizontal                   Vertical
>
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> FP       2.9     Block 1529 ($5F9)            Block 95 ($05F)
>                  Bytes 82  & 83               Bytes 168 & 169
>                  From  02    80               From  00    C8

        Two things:

        1).  I already made these modifications (Thanks Dan!), but I
wasn't too adept at translating Hex.  So here are the translations Dan
sent to me for FP version 2.9.

Command:
Horizontal                      Vertical
block $05F9                     Block $005F
Bytes $0052 & $0053             Bytes $00A8 & 00A9

        Remember this is for the Floating Point version of Imagine 2.9
NTSC only!

        2)  On my A4000 it won't open up to the full width of the screen.
I am using Double NTSC overscanned to the max (720x454), and the screen is
still dragable about 15 to 16 pixels left and right.  Despite rearranging
Command:
the numbers, it still has this same "girth".


        But I DOES WORK!  No strange ghosting or system crashes (yet).
The only anomaly is that preview anims in the stage editor are slightly
skewed. but entirely functional.


        One last thing.  Has anyone experienced fringing in the
perspective view when set to solid?  horizontal lines seem to jut out to
Command:
the right just like in HAM.  It only happens occasionally, but often
enough to make it a recurring problem.

        Cyrus J. Kalbrener

                Digital_Cel Graphics


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5860 1200 recomendations
12/5/93 19:00 13/ [e-mail] (William V. Swartz)
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Hey all,
A friend of mine has decided to ditch the old peecee in order to buy an
A1200 and an accelerator to get back into Amiga usage.  He indicates to me
that he'd like to get into Imagine modelling and rendering although this
won't be his major use.  So I solicit your input as to what accelerator to
recommend to him.  Bang for the buck is important, scsi would be nice but
not neccessary.  Also needed are monitor suggestions, and why, as I don't
grok all the AGA modes/needs.  He has an SVGA monitor that is decent and
wonders if that could be used.  Thanks for any and all input.

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  //
\X/ -BiL-
    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5861 Re(2): Object Scaling Problems
12/6/93 09:05 24/ Stephen Loughran <[e-mail]>
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Jeff Walkup writes:

>Scaling in Stage is relative to the object's original size - that is,
>the size that you save it out of the Detail.

     yep, i know that... thats why i cant work out what its doing. let
me explain a bit more in depth.
    I have a grouped object consisting of three objects. two of the are
extruded font objects (one conformed to cyclinder) and a disk. in the
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detail editor it appears correct and in the correct perpective. i then
load it into the stage editor and its correct but way too large. so i
scale it down to a reasonable size so that the camera can see it all (i
size in all three axis at the same time.  I've had no problem with this
before...  am i doing something wrong here?).  i then save changes, go
out of the stage editor and come back again and the object is deformed
in one axis (in this case its too tall..  both the other axis are fine)
but when i go back to the detail editor its correct. the only way i can
get a decent render is to move the camera so far away that doing it in
trace mode takes longer than usual as the global size is now much
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bigger than it needs to be. I'l shut up about this now... :(

    steve

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5862 RE:Nice deal / imagine 3.0 offer in Amiga Format
12/6/93 03:24 16/ Waland J F <[e-mail]>
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>>Who told you you have to pay #95 instead of the #75 as stated? I want to buy
>>Imagine3.0 through the Amiga Format offer, too. I think this is not very fair
>>- printing #75 and requesting #95 - (sure, 95 pounds is quite cheap for it, too
>apparently they made a printing error (strange - three times), and a few days
>made this error and if I still wanted the package could i orgainise the extra
>20 pounds (which I did).


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well in the latest version of Amiga Format, they are now advertising it at the
correct price of #95. I got a reciept in the post this morning, and the pack
is to follow (who knows when - what is the latest release date?).

jon.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5863 Re: Essence?
12/6/93 04:38 14/ "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
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On Sun, Dec 5, 1993 8:53 am, Jeff Saffold wrote:

>So, is the new Essence for 2.9 going to be ready soon?  And if so, how
>much will the upgrade to it cost, or will (Since its the Christmas
>season.:) Be sent for free to registered Essence owners?

I doubt it'll be free, seeing as Steve and Glenn will have to put a fair amount
of effort into altering and testing the 100-200 (I can't remember, there's sooo
many :) textures.  Even if the actual change is a simple "global replacement"
type thing, there's still duplication and distribution costs to cover (and
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maybe some profit?).  I'd hope for something in the region of $25 to registered
users.  Am I being a bit too hopeful?

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5864 Lens flare (was RE: 3DS Vs. Imagine speed)
12/6/93 03:13 24/ "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
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I sent this a short while ago, but I don't think it got through...
_______________________________________________________________________________
To: IML
From: Oxley David on Mon, Nov 29, 1993 11:19 am
Subject: Re: Lens flare (was RE: 3DS Vs. Imagine speed)

On Sun, Nov 28, 1993 3:48 am, Steve Koren wote:

>[deleted]  Since lens flare happens inside the
>"camera" it can't appear in back of another object, so you don't have to
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>worry about that.  Seems like you could just point out the light sources
>to some sort of post-processor and let it put the lens flare effect in
>for you.  Getting the post processor to do a reasonable job might take
>some effort, though.  But I bet it can be done.

But the effect I'd like to be able to (ab)use is the appearance of two sets of
overlapping coloured hexagons that seem to emanate from the light source along
a diagonal axis.  As the camera viewpoint changes, the hexagons move in/out or
around the source (I can't quite remember which).  I think that achieving this
sort of effect in post-processing would entail more work than if it were
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available during 3D rendering.

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5865 HEX???
12/6/93 07:59 7/ "Andrew P. Vogel" <[e-mail]>
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Where, oh where, do I find HEX? I cannot find this util ANYWHERE on AmiNet!

If it's PD, someone please direct me to where I can find this thing!

Thanks! Posting here since I want to use it for Imagine 2.9...


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5866 Re: Essence?
12/6/93 09:49 27/ [e-mail] (Steve Worley)
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Jeff Saffold writes:

> So, is the new Essence for 2.9 going to be ready soon?  And if so,
> how much will the upgrade to it cost, or will (Since its the
> Christmas season.:) Be sent for free to registered Essence owners?

It's hard to say. I've spoken with Mike Halvorson of Impulse several
times about Imagine 3.0 and compatability, and has he promised several
times to send us any information about textures, etc, when they have
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written it up. I cannot speak for Impulse in any way, so I have no
idea when this will actually happen.

We certainly won't release any updates to Essence until Imagine 3.0
ships. Ideally it will be a simple matter to fool Imagine into loading
our textures, and a simple patch disk will make Imagine 3.0 compatable
with Essence.

Since we still haven't even received our copy of Imagine 2.9, it is
very difficult indeed for us to make any plans or decisions. Meanwhile
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we have been working furioiusly on several other projects, including
LightWave and Real3D ports as well as a standalone material designer.

More later, of course.

-Steve
The Official Apex Guy
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5867 Re: Lens flare (was RE: 3DS Vs. Imagine speed)
12/6/93 09:38 38/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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> >[deleted]  Since lens flare happens inside the
> >"camera" it can't appear in back of another object, so you don't have to
> >worry about that.  Seems like you could just point out the light sources
> >to some sort of post-processor and let it put the lens flare effect in
> >for you.  Getting the post processor to do a reasonable job might take
> >some effort, though.  But I bet it can be done.
>
> But the effect I'd like to be able to (ab)use is the appearance of two sets of
> overlapping coloured hexagons that seem to emanate from the light source along
> a diagonal axis.  As the camera viewpoint changes, the hexagons move in/out or
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> around the source (I can't quite remember which).  I think that achieving this
> sort of effect in post-processing would entail more work than if it were
> available during 3D rendering.
>
But the flair, including those hexagons, is only dependent on several things:
How bright is the lightsource,
The size of the lightsource(maybe, not sure about this one),
and the location of the lightsource in the window(viewport, whatever)

As the camera viewpoint changes, so would the variables, so the flair would
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work accordingly.  It was my impression that Lightwave does this as a post-
rendering thing.  It may use information from the scene, such as location and
brightness, and size, but it is still, atleast in part, a post-rendering thing.

Ofcourse, I guess this means that you have to have visible lightsources if you
don't incorporate Imagine scene information into your postprocessing.

This is an uninformed post, just guess work at best, so if I'm way off...
I'm way off.

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Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5868 How Do They Do That?
11/29/93 08:35 6/ [e-mail] (Rosario Salfi)
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What I'd like to see is some kind of compilation of techniques put out
by all these people now using the Amiga in Hollywood.  For example, how
does Ron Thornton create such realistic textures and plate coloration on
the Babylon 5 series?  Or how do they get realistic looking lights with
diminishing cone effects on Sea Quest?  Things like that...the real
"meat".
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5869 Re: How Do They Do That?
12/6/93 12:39 15/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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> What I'd like to see is some kind of compilation of techniques put out
> by all these people now using the Amiga in Hollywood.  For example, how
> does Ron Thornton create such realistic textures and plate coloration on
> the Babylon 5 series?  Or how do they get realistic looking lights with
> diminishing cone effects on Sea Quest?

These are the sorts of things that are being covered in the new publication,
"LightWave Pro" put out by Avid Publications.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
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% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5870 Hey! It worked!
12/6/93 19:22 14/ Stephen Loughran <[e-mail]>
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Doug Kelly wrote:

>Strange.  Just for grins, why don't you try making a copy of the object
>in question, and in the Detail editor set ALL the axes to the default
>size of 32,32,32.  Load it into Stage and try the same operations
>again.  Maybe it's some thing about the axis values you're using.

    I tried this and it now works just fine... thanks to everyone who
took the time to reply... i'll leave you all in peace (until my next
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mind numbing problem)

    steve

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5871 Re: HEX???
12/6/93 11:57 23/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Andrew P. Vogel wrote:

> Where, oh where, do I find HEX? I cannot find this util ANYWHERE on AmiNet!
>
> If it's PD, someone please direct me to where I can find this thing!
>
> Thanks! Posting here since I want to use it for Imagine 2.9...

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        Waht you need to look for is AZap or NewZap.  They are Hex
editors.  Hex is a way of interpreting the data using a number system
based on 0 and 16 as opposed to 0 and 10.  The letters A-F represent 10-15.

        Plaese don't flame me if I have this all screwed up.  This is how
I learned it.  I am ceratinly no pro, but it won't help people to look for
Hex.lha or something like that.


        Cyrus J. Kalbrener
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5872 Imagine 2.9 BUGS?? NAWH.....
12/4/93 22:16 26/ [e-mail] (David Wyand)
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Hi All!

Well, I think that I have found a couple of bugs in Imagine 2.9 (am
about to send Impulse a FAX on these).

Recently I was doing a project where I needed to use paths a lot.
Unfortunately, when editting a path using the transformation requester,
the changes don't take effect.  Example: go to transform requester.
Rotate 90 degrees.  Click OK.  The Knot of the path has indeed rotated.
Now try to move the knot with the mouse.  The point will snap back to
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the position (or alignment) that it had before the transformation
requester was used.  This also happens if you exit from path editting
right after using the transformation requester.  Very anoying.  This
happens in both the Stage and Detail Editors.  I had to use Imagine 2.0
for my project....

Another Problem (although not as major).  When viewing only the top view
(or anyother view) in the stage editor, and having the camera view
selected, try moving the camera.  The top right quarter of the screen
(where the perspective view is in the four view mode) clears!  Also,
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when you move the camera, it clears any area underneath it!!

If anyone else has these problems let me know...

david wyand
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5873 Re: Object Scaling Problems
12/6/93 16:21 35/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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I dug this one out.

------begin include ------
From: Peter Garza <[e-mail]>

> For some reason, I just can't get the stage editor to save my objects rescled.
> I resize them in the stage editor and "save changes".  Selecting size bar
> doesn't help either.  It does save all positions etc. Any help?

I almost pulled my hair out over this one night when I couldn't get
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the *#$! object to stay rescaled.  But you know that feeling already :)
In order to rescale something in the stage editor and KEEP it rescaled, I
had to click on the LOC button at the bottom.  Basically, you have to
scale along the object's axes.  Hope this helps.

> Fred
>
>
>

Command:
Peter Garza
[e-mail]

-----end include--------

Haven't tried it, but it sounds good:)

Is this fixed in 2.9?  What about slice?  Any better?


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Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5874 Imagine2.9 Particles
12/6/93 19:25 21/ [e-mail]
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Fellow Imagineers....

     Has anyone out there figured out Imagine 2.9's "Particle"
effect, yet??  The more I fool around with it the more confused I
get.  The "explanations" of the various parameters in the requester
are not very thoroughly explained in the materials that came with
2.9, so if anyone has a more detailed explanation about what each one
does and how they interact, I'd love to hear it (and I imagine so
would others).
     Specifically, how do you get the effect to begin gradually?
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Whenever I set it up the first frame of the effect already has a
number of particles a long distance from the original source.  They
just seem to jump there in the space of one frame.
     Lots of other things don't seem to work as I would expect, but
I'm probably just not thinking like the Impulse guys, yet, so I'll
wait (and continue experimenting) until someone comes up with a
better description of how to use the effect to ask any more questions.
     Thanks in advance.....
                           Steve Langguth ([e-mail])

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5875 Re: How Do They Do That?
12/6/93 23:22 28/ Steve Lopez <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 29 Nov 1993, Rosario Salfi wrote:

> What I'd like to see is some kind of compilation of techniques put out
> by all these people now using the Amiga in Hollywood.  For example, how
> does Ron Thornton create such realistic textures and plate coloration on
> the Babylon 5 series?  Or how do they get realistic looking lights with
> diminishing cone effects on Sea Quest?  Things like that...the real
> "meat".
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I saw an article on Babylon 5 somewhere and I'll be buggered if I can
figure out what I did with it!  It talked in great detail about the
effects they did.  One thing I do remember tho, If models had been used to
shoot the ships (like on Star Trek)  The 'Stage' would be something like 5
kilometers across.  They use a HUGE virtual universe!

     /----------------------------------------------\
    /    ///  Steve Lopez -> [e-mail]    \
   /    ///    Student at -> Art Institute of Seattle \
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  / \\\///        Program -> Audio & Video Production  \
  \  \XX/ `040'  Computer -> Amiga 2000 GVP040'33 DCTV /
   \                       : DSS8+ 9megs Flicker fxr  /
    \ "I can do that..."   : Midi DJ500c Supra 14.4k /
     \----------------------------------------------/



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5876 Imagine 3.0 from Amiga Format
12/7/93 03:58 21/ [e-mail] (Stephen J.Gowdy)
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Hi All,
        I've also ordered Imagine 3.0 from Amiga Format. I ordered it at
the price of 75 pounds also. I've read that some have received work from AF
that the price should be 95 pounds. As yet I have received nothing. However,
I may be wrong, but isn't selling something at a different price that what
you say it is agaist the law? I should phone CAB to find out.
        Has anyone got Imagine 3.0 yet? What are the major differences between
Imagine 2.0 and 3.0? I've read about bones and things, but I mean it the
structure basically the same?

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                                                many thanks,

                                                Stephen.

****************************************************************************
*Stephen J Gowdy                *A4000/040* High Energy Physics Group,     *
*Bitnet: GOWDY AT GWIA          *120 MB HD* Dept Of Physics & Astronomy,   *
*DecNet: 20075::GOWDY           *6MEG RAM!* University of Glasgow.         *
*InterNet: [e-mail]*It moves!* Tel: [phone] E:5894 *
****************************************************************************
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5877 Imagine3.0 latest (release date)
12/7/93 02:48 11/ "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
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Hi all,

I called Impulse last night and talked to Mike H.  I was actually checking
they'd received a fax of a couple of bugs I'd found, plus a list of suggestions
for 3.0.  I asked him about 3.0 and he said its release was likely to be 'end
of January' (1994 I think, though I didn't ask ;)  He said that the user
interface was being made much more usable, and they wanted to get some other
features right first time.  Sorry I didn't ask him more, but it's not cheap
phoning from this side of the pond :)

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Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5878 Re: How Do They Do That?
12/7/93 05:49 7/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> I saw an article on Babylon 5 somewhere and I'll be buggered if I can

There was one in Computer Graphics World a few months ago.

  - steve
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5879 Understanding Imagine 2.0
12/7/93 08:45 6/ James "W." Armstrong <[e-mail]>
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Hi all,
        I am having great difficulty in purchasing a copy of "Understanding
Imagine 2.0" anywhere in the UK. Does anyone know a UK outlet for the
above mentioned?
                                Thanks in advance
                                        J.W.Armstrong
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21400.3.1.5880 Unsubscribe
12/7/93 11:27 1/ [e-mail] (David Stecker)
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21400.3.1.5881 Re: Re: Imagine PC??
12/7/93 13:39 23/ "Breno A. Silva" <[e-mail]>
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Oh, well, I haven't found the original message I posted, but what I
want to know is:

Does Imagine PC's quickrender (and even normal render "show") is limited
to 8-bit VGA mode, or can it take advantage of the popular high-color
SVGA modes (16-bit and 24-bit up to 800X600). That's very important for
viewing purposes, you know. Which video boards does it support, in that
case, or is there any board that already have a video driver for it?
Is its interface limited to 640X400 or can it use 800X600-1280X1024 modes
for editing? ATI Graphics Pro comes bundled with a 3DS driver that ena-
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bles editing at up to 1280X1024, I've seen that and it's great (although
slow-down it's noticeable, but that's understandable).
What about composite video output? How's that done in the PC world? Since
it has no "overscan" screen mode, I guess it enlarges the 640X400 mode
to fill the video screen, but that would alias the image too much, I guess.
What boards do you use? Anybody have the PC Personal Animation Recorder?
How much is that, and how does it work?
Anybody already tested Imagine PC in a Pentium? Is that Faster? :)

Phew... hope this get to you now.
Command:

Anxiously waiting for answers,
Breno A. Silva ([e-mail])
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5882 Lens Flare
12/7/93 14:34 26/ Tony Jones <[e-mail]>
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Posted for Paul Rance:

 CJK> On Thu, 25 Nov 1993, Daniel Jr Murrell wrote:

 >> Ok, a question:
 >> Has anyone tried that lens flare texture with 2.9 yet?  How does it look,
 >> render
 >> etc.?  Do you have to trace to get the right effect?  And do you attach
 >> the
 >> texture to a light?  Does it look cheesy, like the example I saw in an ad
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 >> for
 >> Aladdin?  Could someone upload a few example pictures?  Just wondering,
 >> and thanks.


 CJK>  I have put a copy of "flare.default.jpg" in the Imagine section of
 CJK> wuarchive.  It is the default lense flare settings placed on a flat,
 CJK> white
 CJK> disk.  I'm not too impressed myself.

Command:
Yeah not too good are they, they may look good in a star field, Impulse did
write in the pre-release about the next version will have new lightsources
so perhaps they will produce effects similar to lightwaves?

Paul

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5883 RE: Imagine 2.9 PC
12/7/93 20:29 61/ Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
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On Tue, 7 Dec 1993, Breno A. Silva wrote:

> Does Imagine PC's quickrender (and even normal render "show") is limited
> to 8-bit VGA mode, or can it take advantage of the popular high-color
> SVGA modes (16-bit and 24-bit up to 800X600).  That's very important for
> viewing purposes, you know. Which video boards does it support, in that
> case, or is there any board that already have a video driver for it?

>From what I can tell, there is a setting in the config file wehre you tell
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it what resolution you want to Qucikrender to.  Normal rendering is chosen
in the project editor.  The key is the Imagine PC supports VESA video
modes.  That is a "so called" video specification that is somewhat of a
standard.  So there is no video drivers per se.  You use the VESA drivers
for you VGA cards as a tsr  (if the board does not support them straight
out).  There are VESA modes that support the 15-bit hicolor modes, and the
S3 16-bit modes.

> Is its interface limited to 640X400 or can it use 800X600-1280X1024 modes
> for editing?
Command:

I've only used the 640x480 screen mode and have not tried any other.  An
obvious way to do this did not leap forward.

> ATI Graphics Pro comes bundled with a 3DS driver that ena-
> bles editing at up to 1280X1024, I've seen that and it's great (although
> slow-down it's noticeable, but that's understandable).

Not used as mentioned above, but if your card has software VESA drivers,
those are used.  I use a STB Powergraph at home and a Diamond Stealth 24
Command:
VLB at work.  THe Diamond supports the VESA screen modes internally, the
STB needs drivers.  So instead of using the drivers, I render to a TGA
file, then quit the program and use Image Alchemy to convert the image to
8 bit and view it with VPIC.  That yields best result for me.

> What about composite video output? How's that done in the PC world? Since
> it has no "overscan" screen mode, I guess it enlarges the 640X400 mode
> to fill the video screen, but that would alias the image too much, I guess.
> What boards do you use? Anybody have the PC Personal Animation Recorder?
> How much is that, and how does it work?
Command:

No composite video out of "normal" VGA cards on PC's.  This done by buying
special card for such purposes.  They way I've seen it done, one renders
the 24-bit image at 640x486, and then use a single frame recorder to dump
it to tape.  Thats not the only way, just the way I've seen it done.

> Anybody already tested Imagine PC in a Pentium? Is that Faster? :)

I've seen only one and the saleman wouldn't let me touch it because he was
afraid I would crash it.  I have run it on a 486-33 and a 486/66-DX2 with
Command:
no problems other than its TOTAL disdain for EMM386.EXE.  THis sucks
because it makes it difficult to maximize free ram.  Forces you to use
multiple configs (Nicer under DOS 6.x than previous)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Cliff Lee
 [e-mail]
 "Everything will work out if you let it!" Cheap Truck


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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5884 Re: Imagine 2.9 BUGS?? NAWH.....
12/8/93 00:00 24/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Sun, 5 Dec 1993, David Wyand wrote:

> Hi All!
>
> Well, I think that I have found a couple of bugs in Imagine 2.9 (am
> about to send Impulse a FAX on these).
> Another Problem (although not as major).  When viewing only the top view
> (or anyother view) in the stage editor, and having the camera view
> selected, try moving the camera.  The top right quarter of the screen
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> (where the perspective view is in the four view mode) clears!  Also,
> when you move the camera, it clears any area underneath it!!

>
> If anyone else has these problems let me know...
>

Yeah, I found that what you describe happens when obects are in quick
draw mode. I had lots of 'fun' trying to redisplay them, but then found
that if the New mode is selected, the objects re-appeared. Still, this is
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only with objects in bounding boxes, I  haven't tried it with other things.

Nik.

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5885 RE: Understanding Imagine 2.0
12/8/93 01:07 17/ [e-mail] (Stephen J.Gowdy)
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Hi JW,
        The is a mail order place in Leicester that sells it. Their phone number
is in an old edition of Amiga Foramt. I can't remember their name but I'll try
and remember to find it out tonight. If you want it badly give me a phone
tonight after 7ish. My number is 041 812 6337.

                                                regards,

                                                Stephen.

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****************************************************************************
*Stephen J Gowdy                *A4000/040* High Energy Physics Group,     *
*Bitnet: GOWDY AT GWIA          *120 MB HD* Dept Of Physics & Astronomy,   *
*DecNet: 20075::GOWDY           *6MEG RAM!* University of Glasgow.         *
*InterNet: [e-mail]*It moves!* Tel: [phone] E:5893 *
****************************************************************************

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5886 Re: Imagine 2.9 BUGS?? NAWH.....
12/8/93 00:41 34/ <[e-mail]>
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On Dec 5,  1:16am, David Wyand wrote:
> Subject: Imagine 2.9 BUGS?? NAWH.....

> Unfortunately, when editting a path using the transformation requester,
> the changes don't take effect.  Example: go to transform requester.
> Rotate 90 degrees.  Click OK.  The Knot of the path has indeed rotated.
> Now try to move the knot with the mouse.  The point will snap back to
> the position (or alignment) that it had before the transformation
> requester was used.  This also happens if you exit from path editting
> right after using the transformation requester.  Very anoying.  This
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> happens in both the Stage and Detail Editors.  I had to use Imagine 2.0
> for my project....

A friend of mine, who has much more time to try Imagine 2.9 than me, has asked
me to send the same question in the IML. Exactly this bug.
He talked to me about another bug :
You cannot apply a color brush map *and* an altitude brush map to an object.
One of them (sorry but I don't know which one, I didn't try it) doesn't apply.
Has anybody noticed that ?

Command:
Robin

--
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---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer                Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                       Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                       Fax :  [phone]
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5887 Re: Lense Flare
12/8/93 08:35 33/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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On Tue, 7 Dec 1993, Tony Jones wrote:

>  CJK>  I have put a copy of "flare.default.jpg" in the Imagine section of
>  CJK> wuarchive.  It is the default lense flare settings placed on a flat,
>  CJK> white
>  CJK> disk.  I'm not too impressed myself.
>
> Yeah not too good are they, they may look good in a star field, Impulse did
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> write in the pre-release about the next version will have new lightsources
> so perhaps they will produce effects similar to lightwaves?
>
> Paul

        I ahve spoken to a couple of guys at Impulse face to face, and
they think that the idea if lense flare is rediculus.  They see what
LightWave can do as just being flashy.  I agree that rings and lense
reflections can be easily abused and are not what the eye sees when
looking at a light.  But you DO see a haze with many faint, tiny streaks
Command:
eminating from the center of the light source.  They think that even this
is unnecessary.

        Perhapse our texture guru Steve Worley might be able to improve
upon Impulses work?...

        Cyrus J. Kalbrener

                Digital_Cell Graphics

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Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5888 Re: How Do They Do That?
12/8/93 09:16 21/ Jason Jack <[e-mail]>
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Mark Thompson wrote :
> These are the sorts of things that are being covered in the new publication,
> "LightWave Pro" put out by Avid Publications.

Could someone please post or mail me details on overseas subscriptions for
"LightWave Pro".  Nobody in the UK is carrying it.

Any responses appreciated - this is my first post to the IML...  A big hello
to all fellow renderers (imagineers?)  :-))))

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(Actually I did reply-to something a while back - boy did I get a huge error
message :-) anybody else see it???)

Thanks in advance,
Jay


|  Jason Jack  <<< TNG Co. >>>  |  Amiga2000-MMR38SP-38MHz030-50MHz882  |
|  [e-mail]       |  512KBSRAM-8MB32bit-2MB16bit-1MBchip  |
|  Will render for : PAL PAR,   |  Trifecta-4HDDs=1080MB+CT600Streamer  |
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|   more PoWeR, SCSI2 bits...   |  PicassoII-FlickerFixer-VLAB-Sampler  |
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5889 Re: HEX???
12/8/93 17:06 32/ ecorbin <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Andrew P. Vogel wrote:

> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1993 10:59:14 -0500 (EST)
> From: Andrew P. Vogel <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: HEX???
>
> Where, oh where, do I find HEX? I cannot find this util ANYWHERE on AmiNet!
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>
> If it's PD, someone please direct me to where I can find this thing!
>
> Thanks! Posting here since I want to use it for Imagine 2.9...
>
>

Hex.lzh is on Fred Fish 517.  Hope that helps.

By the way, I joined this group after I got Imagine2.0 off the cover of
Command:
Amiga Format.  Since it's PAL only and I have a mere 512k chip, I'm
stuck without an Imagination. :(  Someone posted on comp.sys.amiga.graphics
that there was posted here a description of changes one would have to
make with a hex editor to make it run in NTSC.  Were they correct?  I'm
waiting for the latest archive to appear on wuarchive, but I'm curious
as to whether or not I'll be searching in vain.

Earl Corbin
[e-mail]

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5890 Particles
12/8/93 17:34 28/ [e-mail]
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Thanks for the suggestions about "particles" that have been relayed,
so far.  I had already figured out how to use "delayed" to have the
triangles "peel off" from the front to the back of a sphere.  (Looked
pretty neat, too).  But I can't seem to get any farther than that.
Here's what I'd like to do now.....

I have a small plane, made up of 400 faces (with z axis turned to
point up and down).  It's suspended 200 units above a larger plane
(at z=0).  I have the animation set up for 60 frames and the
"Particle" effect to work on the small plane for frames 2 to 60.
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I would like the triangular "particles" to fall randomly from the
small plane toward the larger one, so I chose the "RAIN" setting.
No matter what settings I use, by frame 2 of the animation (the first
frame the effect is supposed to work upon) a large number of
particles have already fallen from the small plane and many are
already below the level of the ground plane.  In other words it goes
from no particles moving in frame 1 (because the effect has not yet
begun) to almost all of the particles being greatly affected by frame
2.  What settings do I need to use to have the effect work gradually
and randomly?????
Command:

Any suggestions will be much appreciated.

(And tomorrow class we'll move on to "emission".....)

                                       Steve Langguth
                                       ([e-mail])

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5891 Re: Lense Flare
12/9/93 03:03 20/ 09-Dec-1993 0552 <[e-mail]>
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>       I ahve spoken to a couple of guys at Impulse face to face, and
>they think that the idea if lense flare is rediculus.  They see what
>LightWave can do as just being flashy.  I agree that rings and lense
>reflections can be easily abused and are not what the eye sees when

        Funny thing this lense flair. For as long as I can remember
        the video, photo industries have been trying to eliminate
        it. Now here we are trying to produce it. Now If I do an
        animation and the pretense it you are viewing it real time
        (no vcr's,cameras ect) then I don't expect to see it.
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        Think about this! All these REAL animations that are
        being made should not have any flair, unless were supposed
        to be viewing it thru a camcorder or such. I think Impulse
        is right on this. It should be available for the times
        you need to simulate a photo shoot exct but to have it
        in a anim of a space battle that you assume you are
        viewing in person as it happens is kind of self defeating.
        Maybe we watch to much TV and have a problem sorting out
        reality.
                                                bill
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5892 Re: Lense Flare
12/9/93 03:30 30/ "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
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Cyrus J Kalbrener on Wed, Dec 8, 1993 8:28 pm wrote:

>       I ahve spoken to a couple of guys at Impulse face to face, and
>they think that the idea if lense flare is rediculus.  They see what
>LightWave can do as just being flashy.  I agree that rings and lense
>reflections can be easily abused and are not what the eye sees when
>looking at a light.  But you DO see a haze with many faint, tiny streaks
>eminating from the center of the light source.  They think that even this
>is unnecessary.

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IMHO that is defeatest talk from the Impulse guys. I interpret it as either "we
can't be bothered to implement it", or "it would take too long to implement",
or even "we don't know how to implement it".

I want to be able to create photorealistic images, meaning either images as
seen through the lens of a camera, or images as seen by a human bean, sorry,
human being :)  The advent of textures that add a "real-world" worn or
roughened look to objects, soft shadows, motion blur, blurred reflections and
so on, has contributed to the look of a realistic image.  Lens flare, either as
Cyrus describes it, or as Lightwave generates it, is another feature to help
Command:
blur the distinction between real and computer generated images and animations.

>       Perhapse our texture guru Steve Worley might be able to improve
>upon Impulses work?...

If Impulse can't or won't implement it, let's hope they at least give Apex the
texture spec so Glenn and Steve can work on a better version ;)

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5893 Archive #44
12/9/93 07:34 21/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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Well, I've had huge problems getting onto wuarchive to put the archive
#44 on since I always seem to be the person 1 above the limit! Anyway, I
maaged to get on once, and started uploading the file, but my dmn phone
line from home to the Uni computer got funny and I lost carrier!
So, what has happened is that an incomplete archive #44 is on wuarchive
right now. Don't download it since you won't get much out of it. :-)

I am trying to get the whole thing on, just give me time...

BTW, the corrupt archive is around 50K long. The real thing will be about
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140K long.

Does anyone know who do I send mail to to remove the corrupt archive ?

Nik.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

IML archives live on! Compiled for you right here in Sydney, Australia

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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5894 Re: Lense Flare
12/9/93 08:28 18/ [e-mail] (Tom Smith)
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>        I ahve spoken to a couple of guys at Impulse face to face, and
>they think that the idea if lense flare is rediculus.  They see what
>LightWave can do as just being flashy.  I agree that rings and lense
>reflections can be easily abused and are not what the eye sees when
>looking at a light.  But you DO see a haze with many faint, tiny streaks
>eminating from the center of the light source.  They think that even this
>is unnecessary.
>
>        Perhapse our texture guru Steve Worley might be able to improve
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>upon Impulses work?...
>
>        Cyrus J. Kalbrener

Now now, don't you know that Impulse knows what we want, whether we know it
or not.

                                                  Tom Smith
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5895 Use Genlock in Brush requester ?
12/9/93 07:57 28/ <[e-mail]>
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Hi Imagineers (I like that name) !

Recently I read somewhere that you can use a brush map, specify "Use genlock"
in its brush requester (where you choose between filter, colo, altitude and
reflection) and the black (R0G0B0) parts of this image will be transparent. Is
it right ? Can you do it? I was used to use a second brush, black and white,
with the white part corresponding to what I want to be transparent, and applied
it as a filter brush map. This works, but to specify color 0 to be transparent
in the color brush map would be much easier. Can you do that, and then, how ?
Anybody ?
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Robin

(Sorry to not speak about 2.9 or lense flare :-)...first one is not reliable
enough and the second one is unuseful IMHO.

--
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---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
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Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer                Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                       Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                       Fax :  [phone]




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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5896 GRRRRR LET'S GET HIM
12/9/93 09:19 34/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Howdy HI Imagineers!   :-)


Who's the idiot who isn't keeping things orderly in the
Imagine Landfill on wuarchive?!

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huh?   me?


Oh!  <harumph>  Yes....of course. ME!


Well, I will be going thru the Imagine Landfill this weekend.
All bad files will be deleted, all good files will be moved
to their rightful spots.

Command:
Sorry about letting it get out of hand. It will never happen
again.

Honest.

I swear.


Dave Wickard  [phone]     "Darth Vader CAN'T be Luke Skywalker's
[e-mail]          father. They don't even have the
Command:
[e-mail]         same last name!"
[e-mail]             -Woody on CHEERS
[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5897 Re: Lense Flare
12/9/93 11:04 10/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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> Lens flare, either as Cyrus describes it, or as Lightwave generates it,
> is another feature to help blur the distinction between real and
> computer generated images and animations.

Agreed.  Lens reflections in particular _are_ usually supposed to be
avoided, yet I think we do need some way to make lights look more
realistic  - haze and glowing halos such as LW can do helps a lot.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5898 Re: Lense Flare
12/9/93 10:39 32/ "rob (r.d.) hounsell" <[e-mail]>
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David,

> I want to be able to create photorealistic images, meaning either images as
> seen through the lens of a camera, or images as seen by a human bean, sorry,
> human being :)  The advent of textures that add a "real-world" worn or
> roughened look to objects, soft shadows, motion blur, blurred reflections and
> so on, has contributed to the look of a realistic image.  Lens flare, either as
> Cyrus describes it, or as Lightwave generates it, is another feature to help
> blur the distinction between real and computer generated images and animations.
>
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  For the sake of arguement, why are we trying to recreate a digital camera? At
first, I too thought it was a neato effect. But then I thought, "other than the
fun of modelling a real world effect, why are we bothering?" What I mean is, in
our animations it is possible to mimic the view as a camera would see it, but
if we can do it as a human bean (e.g.  no lens flare) would see a scene if he
or she were actually there, isn't that better?

  I suppose it is in deference to existing cultural sterotypes and beliefs. For
instance, a telephone our company once produced actually has a lead weight in it
Command:
because the average consumer equates heaviness with quality, even though that
is no longer a valid paradigm.

Rob
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| System Performance:                    PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Design Team. Dept. PS27  ESN: 395-2904                        |
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| Northern Telecom Public Switching                                           |
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5899 Imagine - Real3D Upgrade info.
12/9/93 09:54 173/ John Shiali <[e-mail]>
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No flames please - I'm just posting for a friend contracted to Activa
who does not have net access, primarily for those interested in changing
software. Any abuse *WILL* be bounced back to your service provider or
System Administrator.

For more info, please contact Andy at the numbers at the bottom,
rather than email to me.

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 * This message forwarded from area 'IMAGINE' (Imagine)
 * Original message dated 24 Nov 93, from Andy Jones

REALISE YOUR DREAMS - JUST IMAGINE AND YOU'RE HALFWAY THERE.

Imagine 2.0 users, you can now upgrade to Real 3D v2.40.

Command:

Summary of new features and improvements:
----------------------------------------

- Highly increased rendering speed:
    - Render time material handling speed doubled
    - B-spline shading speed 2-3 times higher
    - Maximally 4 times higher shading speed for example
      in the environment mode

Command:
- Built-in 3D font loader tool

- New material features
    - Fractal noise mapping handler
    - Fractal noise scope handler
    - Fractal noise bump handler
    - Fractal noise color handler
    - Marble color handler
    - Granite color handler

Command:
- New tool window features:
    - Wider collection of built-in icons available
    - New dialog-based icon selection window
    - No gadgets option available

- Built-in conical spotlights
- Built-in cylindrical spotlights
- New light source attributes:
    - Distance intensity fading control
    - Spot-axis intensity fading control
Command:
    - Spot angle/radius control
    - Brightness control

- Freeform extrusion tool:
    - Automatic beveling with four bevel profile options
    - Adjustable Beveling radius and extrusion depth
    - Both bevelling inwards and outwards supported
    - Fully automatic: generates holes, adjusts beveling radius etc.
      correctly
    - Uses B-splines for the best quality
Command:

- Q-splines, a new shading option for meshes, which is usually faster
  than normal Cubic B-spline shading, but still without edges in
  the profile.

- Advanced tool for creating complex skeletonal particle systems
- Volume filling particle tool

- New improved skeletons:
    - A new special skeleton primitive for better control and
Command:
      visual appearance
    - Joint friction enables natural motions
    - Editing of any skeleton point using inverse kinematics is now
      possible. For example, it is possible to animate a skeleton
      using several inverse kinematics methods, each affecting the
      desired skeleton point.

- New object attributes:
    - 'No shadows' eliminates shadows from the surface of an object,
      increasing rendering speed
Command:
    - 'Bump shadows' generates distorted shadow edges on bump mapped
      surfaces

- Freeform curves can be used as trim curves to cut objects

- Circular bending, which e.g. can be used to bend a straight tube
  into a ring.

- Twist modification which twists objects around a given axis

Command:
- Shrink wrapping functions:
   - Parallel shrink wrap
   - Cylindrical shrink wrap
   - Spherical shrink wrap
   - 'Natural' shrink wrap to surface normal direction
   - These functions can be used to generate a mesh surface from
     geometric primitives, or to simulating Boolean operations with
     freeforms.

- A function for changing the start point of closed freeform objects
Command:

- A function for automatically generating triple end points/curves
  for freeform objects

- New and improved functions for View window's internal camera
  controlling. In the below, most important ones are listed:

- A new, intuitive mouse-based camera MOTION controlling mode for
  view Windows, enabling easy, interactive scene viewing

Command:
- A new, intuitive mouse-based camera POSITION controlling mode for
  view Windows, enabling accurate interactive camera positioning

- A new asynchronous window type for controlling Views' camera
  attributes and camera object interaction:
    - Scale control and lens angle control by slides and numerically
    - Aimpoint and viewpoint coordinate control & reset
    - Heading/Pitching/Bankink angle control by sliders and numerical
      gadgets
    - Distance control
Command:
    - Depth of field control

- A new camera object creation function, introducing a view cone
  based camera definition.

- A new camera wireframe shape, showing the camera orientation
  and the lens angle.

- New accurate input plane control system separately from View
  camera direction control, enabling accurate perspective editing:
Command:
    - Editing in absolute space coordinate dirctions
    - Editing in object space coordinate directions
    - Horizontal/vertical locking
    - Hot-point position control also in depth direction while editing

- A new, handy asynchronous control window for handling View windows.
  It includes the most frequently needed grid control, scale control,
  drawing setting control, camera control and input plane control
  functions as quickly accessible icons.

Command:
- Numerical, accurate window size control

- Easy-to-use interfaces for creating key frame animations and
  for editing them:
    - Possiblity to adjust key frame positions in the animation
      using sliders.
    - Key visibility control
    - Linear/B-spline interpolation

- New fractal noise based motion/spin method for generating irregular
Command:
  motions

- A time line interface for animation editing. It allows easy editing
  of animation event timing.

  especially handy in combination with the new Freeform extrude tool.

Alltogether, about 100 new features and improvements, of which most
are intended to make the user interface easier and the features of the
software more accessible.
Command:

The upgrade price from Imagine 2.0 is 230 pounds sterling.

For more information and an order form contact Andric at Activa
International
on [phone] voice,
   [phone] fax,
   or netmail me at 2:254/516.1@fidonet.

Andy
Command:



Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5900 re:lens flares
12/9/93 13:51 19/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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Cyrus writes:
>        I ahve spoken to a couple of guys at Impulse face to face, and
>they think that the idea if lense flare is rediculus.  They see what
>LightWave can do as just being flashy.  I agree that rings and lense
>reflections can be easily abused and are not what the eye sees when
>looking at a light.  But you DO see a haze with many faint, tiny streaks
>eminating from the center of the light source.  They think that even this
>is unnecessary.

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well, it *IS* their software :-) :-)
seriously though, Lightwave's lens flare can be controlled in a variety of ways,
from the ubiquitous edge glowing, anamorphic squeezing, red ringed, hexagons
flying toward the camera effect, to a subtle white starburst or haze-
and is a feature WELL worth including, IMHO- all this talk about whether
"we" should be imitating a bad cameraman is ridiculous, if you don't want
lens flare, you don't need to use it-but for the rest of us... :-)

kevin
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5901 Re[2]: Lense Flare
12/9/93 13:18 14/ [e-mail]
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>...What I mean is, in our animations it is possible to mimic the view as a
>camera would see it, but if we can do it as a human bean (e.g.  no lens flare)
>would see a scene if he or she were actually there, isn't that better?


     This argument against lens flare makes a lot of intuitive sense.
     However, like a camera, the human eye also has the lens flare
     effect. It is not a camera-only artifact. Human vision also
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     exhibits motion blur.


     Marshall
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5902 Re: Lense Flare
12/9/93 14:40 31/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
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mime-version:1.0


> I want to be able to create photorealistic images, meaning either images as
> seen through the lens of a camera, or images as seen by a human bean, sorry,
> human being :)  The advent of textures that add a "real-world" worn or
> roughened look to objects, soft shadows, motion blur, blurred reflections and
> so on, has contributed to the look of a realistic image.  Lens flare, either as
> Cyrus describes it, or as Lightwave generates it, is another feature to help
-----
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> blur the distinction between real and computer generated images and animations.

Oh please. How many times in your life have you seen lens flare from your own
human eyes? Lens flare on film means the cinematography was bad. Anybody doing
photography tries to avoid this at all costs. Look at it this way, do you think
Impulse should come out with a texture to simulate HAM fringing?

Just my $.02.

I feel much better now.
Command:

--
@******************************************************************************@
*                                      "When you point your finger 'cause your *
*  Byrt Martinez                        plan fell through, you've got 3 more   *
*  - Non-Christian  8^P                 fingers pointing back at you."         *
*    (Fred 12:45)                       - Dire Straits                         *
*                                                                              *
*  [e-mail], [e-mail]                           *
@******************************************************************************@
Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5903 Lens Flare
12/9/93 23:00 16/ Craig Donaldson <[e-mail]>
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Hi,
        This is my first mailing here, so Hi to all fellow imagineers
:)
        Re. Lensflare, although I agree that Lens Flare is an
artifact of Optical equipment, and therefore for realism we should be
avoiding it, it was high on my wish list for the new imagine release.
 Too Often I have tried to emulate an intense light source and find
that my efforts are sadly lacking, the light lacks visual impact.
However I see an image rendered in LW and i think WOW, I love the
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diffuse light glow and it would be nice to have those optical
artifacts for the occasional use.
        I hereby second the motion for an Improved Lens Flare :).

Craig

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5904 RE: Imagine - Real3D Upgrade info.
12/9/93 17:21 19/ Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]
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And don't forget:

   DONGLE PROTECTION!!!!  With no pass-through!!! So you will have to
disconnect your joystick everytime you want to use Real-3D!

   Limited object import capability!!!  There are hundreds of PD Imagine
objects.  How many PD Real 3D objects have you seen lately?

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   And what about algorithmic textures?  Seen any mention of those?  Maybe
you just don't need them?

   And so cheap!!!  230 pounds sterling, that's about $470 US!!!  Cheap at
twice the price!!!

   And you thought Forms Editor was tough!   Wait until you see the modeler
in Real3D!

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5905 RE: GRRRRR LET'S GET HIM
12/9/93 15:25 37/ Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]
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He lives!  There actually is a living, breathing person in charge of
amiga-boing/incoming/imagine?!!?   Glad to see you returning to the land of
the living! (Of course, this may be open to debate!)
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: imagine
Subject: GRRRRR LET'S GET HIM
Date: Thursday, December 09, 1993 11:19AM

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Howdy HI Imagineers!   :-)

Who's the idiot who isn't keeping things orderly in the
Imagine Landfill on wuarchive?!

huh?   me?

Oh!  <harumph>  Yes....of course. ME!

Well, I will be going thru the Imagine Landfill this weekend.
Command:
All bad files will be deleted, all good files will be moved
to their rightful spots.

Sorry about letting it get out of hand. It will never happen
again.

Honest.

I swear.

Command:

Dave Wickard  [phone]     "Darth Vader CAN'T be Luke Skywalker's
[e-mail]          father. They don't even have the
[e-mail]         same last name!"
[e-mail]             -Woody on CHEERS
[e-mail]

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5906 RE: GRRRRR LET'S GET HIM
12/9/93 18:28 20/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>
>
>He lives!  There actually is a living, breathing person in charge of
>amiga-boing/incoming/imagine?!!?   Glad to see you returning to the land of
>the living! (Of course, this may be open to debate!)
>

Careful!  This dude also can kick people off the list!  Better watch what
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you say about him!   :)

Big brother is watching.


--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail] - CWRU, Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
| "It's not how many hours you work, but how much work you put in an hour" |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5907 RE: Lense Flare
12/10/93 04:36 29/ "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
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In message <"20762 Thu Dec  9 13:44:13 1993"@bnr.ca>, "rob (r.d.) hounsell"
wrote:

>  For the sake of arguement, why are we trying to recreate a digital camera?
At
>first, I too thought it was a neato effect. But then I thought, "other than
the
>fun of modelling a real world effect, why are we bothering?" What I mean is,
in
>our animations it is possible to mimic the view as a camera would see it, but
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Command:
>if we can do it as a human bean (e.g.  no lens flare) would see a scene if he
>or she were actually there, isn't that better?

Yes, I agree...except for maybe when you're actually looking through a
computer-generated lens :)

One 'real world effect' that I find really useful is motion blur, which helps
prevent the 'strobing' you usually get with computer-generated (and stop-motion
for that matter) animations.  I wonder if one could construe lens flare as
useful?  Hmm...probably not.  I'd still like to have it, though :)
Command:

Walking home in the rain last night (sunny England ;) I looked up at a street
lamp, and observed the tiny radial light lines that Cyrus described in an
earlier post.  I agree with Jeff Walkup, that we "need some way to make lights
look more realistic  - haze and glowing halos such as LW can do helps a lot".
If the human eye can perceive this effect, maybe we should twist Impulse's arm
to get them to implement it.

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5908 RE: Lense Flare
12/10/93 07:57 21/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Jeff Walkup wrote:

> Agreed.  Lens reflections in particular _are_ usually supposed to be
> avoided, yet I think we do need some way to make lights look more
> realistic  - haze and glowing halos such as LW can do helps a lot.
>
> --
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> Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer

        Perhapse lense "glare"?....

                Cyrus J. Kalbrener

                        Digital_Cel



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Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5909 Starfield
12/10/93 10:14 33/ [e-mail]
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Ok fellow Imagineers, we all know that Imagine's starfield is very cheesy at
best.  Here's a great solution for Imagine 2.9 users.

Create a sphere that is as large as your world, minimum size should be
at least 1000 units along each axis.

Set the sphere's filter values to 255 for each R,G,B component.

Apply the CONFETTI texture and make these adjustments to the default values:
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  SIZE - .25
  V1   - .53
  V2   - .55
  COLOR 1 - R,G,B values to 255 each
  COLOR 2 - R,G,B values to 100 each

Make sure the camera is somewhere in the center, and render.  Voila!  a great
Starfield!  As Impressive as FractInt's starfield, BUT this one is in 3D and
takes up very little valuable RAM.
  Refer to the docs on the confetti texture to make any adjustments that you
Command:
like.
  Also, try making a short anim with just the sphere, and just change the
Camera's perspective, you can get a nice space warp effect.

As you all guessed I've been playing with all the textures and have created
some stunning effects.  I should be uploading something real soon now thats
chock full of texture use. I'll try to get somone to get it up here, since I
don't have that capability.

Enjoy the Starfield!
Command:

GreG

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5910 Those understanding guys at Impulse
12/10/93 07:58 28/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Tom Smith wrote:

> >looking at a light.  But you DO see a haze with many faint, tiny streaks
> >eminating from the center of the light source.  They think that even this
> >is unnecessary.
> >
> >        Perhapse our texture guru Steve Worley might be able to improve
> >upon Impulses work?...
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> >
> >        Cyrus J. Kalbrener
>
> Now now, don't you know that Impulse knows what we want, whether we know it
> or not.
>
>                                                   Tom Smith

        Not only do they know what we want, they know just what we do and
do not need...
Command:

        Cyrus J. Kalbrener

                Digital_Cel Graphics




Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5911 RE: Imagine - Real3D Upgrade info.
12/10/93 08:30 44/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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>
>
> And don't forget:
>
>    DONGLE PROTECTION!!!!  With no pass-through!!! So you will have to
> disconnect your joystick everytime you want to use Real-3D!
>
Yeah, this sucks.

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>    Limited object import capability!!!  There are hundreds of PD Imagine
> objects.  How many PD Real 3D objects have you seen lately?

Yeah this sucks too.  I would hope someone (Pixel 3d or Interchange) is working
on this.
>
>    And what about algorithmic textures?  Seen any mention of those?  Maybe
> you just don't need them?
>
I think Glenn and Steve are working on this one.
Command:

>    And so cheap!!!  230 pounds sterling, that's about $470 US!!!  Cheap at
> twice the price!!!

Whoa, what kinda exchange rate are you getting?  Are pounds sterling the same
as pounds(ignorant American here:)?  Pounds was about .66 of US, or 1.52 the
other way, which makes 230 pounds = $349 US.  I could have sworn that mail order
was right around that price anyway.
>
>    And you thought Forms Editor was tough!   Wait until you see the modeler
Command:
> in Real3D!
>
>
I'm not sure if this is a *GREAT* offer, but I thought it was a nice Christmas
spirited one.  ie don't look a gift horse in the mouth.  The guy wasn't flaming
Imagine, or saying Real is better than Imagine.  He was just offering it
at a discounted rate.


Tom Setzer - self appointed critic
Command:
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5912 Err, umm
12/10/93 08:47 14/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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        Without thinking, I just sent off a compilation of the discussion
on lens flare that has taken place over the past 24hours here on the list.
 I didn't stop to ask.  I'm sorry.  I did remove everyones name, including
my own, so no ones registration should myteriously disappear.  I felt that
Impulse needed to be aware that there are some strong feelings that users
have about their company and Imagine itself.

        Cyrus J. Kalbrener
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                Flames accepted, but not welcomed.


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5913 Re: Lense Flare
12/10/93 08:57 37/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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>
>       I ahve spoken to a couple of guys at Impulse face to face, and
> they think that the idea if lense flare is rediculus.  They see what
> LightWave can do as just being flashy.  I agree that rings and lense
> reflections can be easily abused and are not what the eye sees when
> looking at a light.  But you DO see a haze with many faint, tiny streaks
> eminating from the center of the light source.  They think that even this
> is unnecessary.
>
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Perhapes it is flashy, but...Last night when watching some more space walks
on CSPAN(great stuff, BTW), a lens flair(or whatever) came across the camera.
There were well over 100 hexagons(polygons, I think they were hexagons) of all
sizes and colors, scattered across the screen in a line defined by the angle
of the sun(or reflective surface) which was off screen(much to my surprise).

Now wouldn't it be nice to have lens flair, if you were modeling a scene as
shot from a camera on the Endeavor.  Flashy, yes.  But it would add to the
realism.  BTW, isn't realism one of the goals.  So what if it is "bad" to have
lens flair in a shot, it happens.  Thats real.
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Sounds to me that Impulse is just making excuses.  And if its ridiculous,
then why did they put one in?  I'd be satified with, "we're working on it"
or even "its not one of our priorities right now."

BTW, I like flashy:)

Also, Dave@flipping, why the double email in the address?
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[e-mail], is that correct?
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Tom Setzer - self appointed critic
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5914 Archive #44
12/10/93 08:49 14/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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Ok, guys I've just uploaded the proper version of the IML archive #44
onto the wuarchive.

The archive is in /pub/amiga-boing/incoming/imagine

The name of the file is arc_44.lha and the size is 143K.

There is also a file there called arc-44.lha. Do not download it since it
is the corrupt one! It is around 50K in size.

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Nik Vukovljak

(Your friendly archivist)

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21400.3.1.5915 subscribe
12/10/93 11:14 4/ "D.J.M. Walker" <[e-mail]>
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21400.3.1.5916 Re: Lense Flare
12/10/93 09:51 9/ [e-mail] (Tom Smith)
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I think the big appeal of lens flare is that it makes bright lights really
seem bright. The monitor can only get so bright, so it's not possible to
show bright objects (i.e. the Sun) as we would actually see it, so lens
lares give you the next best thing by showing how real-world cameras would
see it.

Am I on the right track here?

                                                   Tom Smith
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21400.3.1.5917 RE: Lense Flare
12/10/93 11:12 56/ Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail].m
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    Has anybody looked into doing all this stuff, motion-blur, lens flare,
haze, etc. with something like ImageMaster?  I know ImageMaster does a
really good job with motion blur.  ADPro does a good job with twirl,
collapse and some other effects.  I think it is a little over-demanding to
try to achieve all these effects strictly within a 3D modeling/rendering
program.  It seems like it wouldn't be too hard to create a lens flare
transparency map and overlay it on the frames where you want it, using one
of the picture processing programs out there.  Haven't done this myself yet
but might give it a try, just to see how feasible it is.
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 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: rob (r.d.) hounsell
Cc: IML
Subject: RE: Lense Flare
Date: Friday, December 10, 1993 12:36PM

In message <"20762 Thu Dec  9 13:44:13 1993"@bnr.ca>, "rob (r.d.) hounsell"
wrote:

Command:
>  For the sake of arguement, why are we trying to recreate a digital
camera?
At
>first, I too thought it was a neato effect. But then I thought, "other than
the
>fun of modelling a real world effect, why are we bothering?" What I mean
is,
in
>our animations it is possible to mimic the view as a camera would see it,
but
Command:
>if we can do it as a human bean (e.g.  no lens flare) would see a scene if
he
>or she were actually there, isn't that better?

Yes, I agree...except for maybe when you're actually looking through a
computer-generated lens :)

One 'real world effect' that I find really useful is motion blur, which
helps
prevent the 'strobing' you usually get with computer-generated (and
Command:
stop-motion
for that matter) animations.  I wonder if one could construe lens flare as
useful?  Hmm...probably not.  I'd still like to have it, though :)

Walking home in the rain last night (sunny England ;) I looked up at a
street
lamp, and observed the tiny radial light lines that Cyrus described in an
earlier post.  I agree with Jeff Walkup, that we "need some way to make
lights
look more realistic  - haze and glowing halos such as LW can do helps a
Command:
lot".
If the human eye can perceive this effect, maybe we should twist Impulse's
arm
to get them to implement it.

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5918 RE: Lense Flare
12/10/93 09:12 13/ ecorbin <[e-mail]>
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I've got to get my two cents in on this.  I don't care if it isn't
realistic.  Are mirrored balls floating around an abstract geometric
scene all that realistic?  The point is that it looks cool, as does lens
flare.  Whether one uses it or not is entirely up to the artist and
his/her tastes.  I would personally like to have the option to use it
once and awhile.

Earl
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5919 Re: Starfield
12/10/93 11:49 29/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>
>
>Ok fellow Imagineers, we all know that Imagine's starfield is very cheesy at
>best.  Here's a great solution for Imagine 2.9 users.
>
>Apply the CONFETTI texture and make these adjustments to the default values:
>


        Thanks for uploading this!  Finally a good starfield in 3D!!!
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I had tried tons o things from drawing them to making huge bitmaps with
dots, but that took too much ram plus the dots were too big etc..

        This actually gives a good looking starfield with almost no RAM
consumption.  Plus, you can easily set the colors and frequency.

        As a suggestion,
                1] Make the sphere bright to make sure the stars show up
                2] Make a copy of the sphere and scale it slightly smaller
                        or bigger and rotate it so it's at a diff angle.
Command:
                        Then, you'll get a cool rotate effect when you
                        move the camera.


--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail] - CWRU, Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
| "It's not how many hours you work, but how much work you put in an hour" |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5920 NTSC limits
12/10/93 12:14 17/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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        I just finished hooking up my Amiga, via the DPS PAR, to the Video
        Services scopes here at Intergraph.  The engineer was very impressed
        with the quality of the output.  I was playing an animation I
        created using Imagine.  He said that some of my color levels were a
        bit "hot".  Not too bad but they might give them a problem.  I assured
        him I can tweek the colors using the NTSC operator in ADPro.  So
        that's not a problem.  He was very happy with the quality.

        My question:
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        Is there a way to get Imagine to only use NTSC safe colors while
        it's rendering the frames?  Or do I need to run the frames through
        ADPro after Imagine is finished?

        Dale

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5921 Lens Flare again
12/10/93 15:07 23/ [e-mail] (Ben Scott)
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>   Flashy, yes.  But it would add to the
> realism.  BTW, isn't realism one of the goals.

I've said this to others in private, but I guess I should post it here again:
IMO, realism is NOT one of the goals.  Lens flare makes sense because with
a computer animation you're not simulating reality; you're simulating a camera.
It's a subtle point, but consider - a video or film camera can reproduce things
that you can theoretically go and view with your naked eyes.  In other words,
you can see it on a TV screen, or in real life.  A computer animation is never
seen with the naked eye - it's always on a screen, or on paper, or whatever.
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You're not trying to simulate naked-eye reality, in other words - not really.
So lens flare, flashy and overused as it may be, DOES make sense in its way.

.                              <<<<Infinite K>>>>

--
.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Ben Scott, video animation dilettante and consultant at The Raster Image. |
| [e-mail], Denver Colorado  /\---------------------------------|
|---------------------------------------'  \  Amiga 4000 - simply the best. |
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| "My country, right or wrong, is that it?" `-------------------------------|
| "There are worse philosophies." "Most of them begin with that." -Starcops |
`---------------------------------------------------------------------------'
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5922 Flare again...
12/10/93 13:11 21/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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        I think the basic point about lens flare is that some of us do
indeed have uses for it, while others do not.  One of Impulses newest
excuses is that if it increses rendering time too much, then they won't
put it in.  If we want the effect, then we would most likely be willing to
wait.  If we don't want to wait for 18 lights with flare and lense
reflections to render, then we can TURN THE DAMN OPTION OFF.  Jeez.  We are
willing
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to pay for a product that meets our needs.  Right now, LightWave is
meeting some of mine, more than Imagine 2.9.


        End spouting off

                Cyrus J. Kalbrener

                        Digital_Cel

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5923 Imagine<-->LightWave
12/9/93 15:41 15/ [e-mail] (Christian Gottschlin
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Hello out there around the world,

Do   you  know  something  about  an  object-converter  LightWave
(Toaster) to Imagine?

 MfG, Christian

MfG, Christian

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|         _  Z-NETZ      [e-mail]            |
|      _ //  FiDOclassic 2:241/5203.10                |PublicKey via
|      \X/   UUCP        [e-mail]      |SendPubKey

... Hast Du`n Hemd unter? (Dietmar D. zu einer Mitschuelerin)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5924
12/10/93 15:33 16/ [e-mail]
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Question: Is there a way to have some colors of a texture be transparent so
 that I could see through the faces of the object?

I would like to simulate some trees the same way Pacific Data did in
 "Locomotion" animation where you just have some 2d planes and apply a green
 texture that has some random "holes/blotches" in it.  Can I do this with any
 of the textures included in V2.9?  Or should I be using an brushmap (with
 some special color for the holes)?  I fooled around with some of the texures
 of 2.9 where they have "filter/transparent" colors , but still can't seem to
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 get the "see thru" effect.

Can this be done?

Thanks in advance.
 Dave.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5925 Amazing Computing Tutorial Lens Flare
12/10/93 17:08 11/ [e-mail] (Cedric Georges Chang)
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With all this discussion about lens flare, some of you might be intesested in
knowing that the Jan 94 issue of Amazing Computing has an article on how to
create lens flares with Opalvision/ARexx or DCTV.

Cedric

--
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Cedric Chang                Mechanical Engineer               // Commodore
[e-mail]       Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute      \X/  Amiga 3000
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5926 Re: Lens Flare
12/10/93 18:44 19/ [e-mail]
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>Oh please. How many times in your life have you seen lens flare from your o
>human eyes? Lens flare on film means the cinematography was bad. Anybody doing
>photography tries to avoid this at all costs. Look at it this way, do you think
>Impulse should come out with a texture to simulate HAM fringing?
>
>I feel much better now.

   Nice that you feel better, Byrt. Lens flare is a consequence of an
imperfect optical system. The human eyes are an imperfect optical system.
You won't see lens flare as manifested by multiple hexagons in a row, but
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you can indeed see lens flare from your eyes. If you have ever seen rings
around headlights or streetlights at night you have seen it. Mostly you
avoid seeing other forms of lens flare because you will avoid looking
directly at bright lights, which is where the flare occurs.


     <ELF> - Eric J Fleischer,MD - Dr Gandalf
     Ophthalmologist and Amiga Animator
     [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5927 Filters and Imagine 2.9
12/10/93 20:07 24/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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On Sat, 11 Dec 1993 [e-mail] wrote:

>
> Question: Is there a way to have some colors of a texture be transparent so
>  that I could see through the faces of the object?
>
> I would like to simulate some trees the same way Pacific Data did in
>  "Locomotion" animation where you just have some 2d planes and apply a green
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>  texture that has some random "holes/blotches" in it.  Can I do this with any
>  of the textures included in V2.9?  Or should I be using an brushmap (with
>  some special color for the holes)?  I fooled around with some of the texures
>  of 2.9 where they have "filter/transparent" colors , but still can't seem to
>  get the "see thru" effect.

        There is a bug in 2.9 that inhibits using filter and colormaps at
the same time on the same surface.  I'm not sure of the details, but
someone else posted a coment on this earlier.  Fall back to 2.0 and try it
there.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5928 Re: Starfield
12/10/93 22:38 25/ [e-mail]
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Michael B. Comet says:
>
>       As a suggestion,
>               1] Make the sphere bright to make sure the stars show up
>               2] Make a copy of the sphere and scale it slightly smaller
>                       or bigger and rotate it so it's at a diff angle.
>                       Then, you'll get a cool rotate effect when you
>                       move the camera.

Now, suggestion [2] is _really_ fake, even though it may look "right" (ie.
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Star Trek does it a lot, I think).  This is called "stellar parallax", and
it will never happen in real life, simply because all the stars are so far
away that you basically can't move fast and far enough to make their
relative alignments change in this kind of obvious way.  If I remember my
history of science correctly, this was actually part of an early "proof"
for why the earth could't possibly be moving -- if it was, surely we would
see this parallax effect in the sky all the time.  The only other
alternative was the earth was moving, but the stars were insanely far
away.  (Today we know that the earth moves and the stars _are_ insanely
far away :)  So this effect bugs me, but I do see the point in doing
Command:
whatever looks most "real" to the general audience.

--
Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5929 Re: Lens Flare
12/10/93 22:56 29/ [e-mail]
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Someone I previously deleted says:
>
> >Oh please. How many times in your life have you seen lens flare from your o
> >human eyes? Lens flare on film means the cinematography was bad. Anybody doing
> >photography tries to avoid this at all costs.

Lens flare on film means the cinematography was bad _only_ if you're
watching a movie or tv program.  If you're watching "real life" footage on
the news, or any kind of "spontaneous" shot, lens flare, camera-wobble,
etc. are perfectly normal and expected.  For example, what was your first
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reaction to the Rodney King video?

 1. "Oh, what bad cinematography.  The camera keeps moving in and out of
focus and wobbling all over the place.  The lighting is terrible."

 2. "Yikes!  They're really pounding that guy!  Somebody actually got this
on film?"

Computer animation is generally too "perfect", so any trick that can
reduce this is possibly useful.  Not only do we need lens flare, I think
Command:
we need some kind of automated macro to simulate that camera-vibration you
get when filming airplanes from other airplanes (for more realistic
fly-throughs), an effect that simulates rain beading on the camera lens
and dribbling off, a "dirt" texture to apply to everything in sight, and
so on.

--
Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5930 re:2D trees
12/10/93 22:52 39/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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to create realistic looking 2d trees, you need:

a realistic image map of a tree (see below)
a b/w or alpha channel image of above tree
a rectangular plane

map the b/w or alpha channel image as a transparency map
map the realistic image map using the same coordinates

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The most realistic trees i have used come from a company called
Imagetects. They market a CD with over a thousand images, in
a variety of formats, including Amiga IFF.
They also maintain a file library on the American Society of
Landscape Architects (ASLA) BBS, so you can download individual
files.

The d/l procedure is somewhat tedious, you need to call Imagetects,
and fax them a registration form, then call the BBS, get a list
of files you want, then call or fax Imagetects again with your order,
Command:
and they will supply you with passwords. The files are password protected
twice, once to download, and once to unzip (unzip has an encrypt
option :-( )
The files on the BBS are TGA format, so you also need to convert them.

It sounds (and is) tedious, especially if you d/l a lot of files
(like me) so why do it ?
The tree images are realistic-and are listed by botanical name,
i.e. Juniperus chinensis, a large shrub, etc. The trees also
have those all important "holes" in them, so you can see "through"
Command:
them if you map them properly.

Well worth the hassle IMHO

Imagetects
1-408-252-5487, ask for Verdonna or Alan Reed, very nice folks

i'm not an employee etc....just a satisfied user.
kevin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5931 more flare
12/11/93 02:33 39/ Steve Lopez <[e-mail]>
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> imperfect optical system. The human eyes are an imperfect optical system.
>      <ELF> - Eric J Fleischer,MD - Dr Gandalf
>
  >>>>Ophthalmologist and Amiga Animator<<<<
>      [e-mail]

Isn't it amazing how many overlapping fields you find on the net?  I dont
think it matters what issue you bring up, somewhere out there is a person
who is a qualified expert in that very thing!

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Anyway, to the point.  I think lens flare has it's place, as does ANY
effect that we can create in real life.  We are talking about Art here
folks, and art is whatever it means to each individual.  I never use the
boing FX in 2.0.  That doesn't mean someone else won't.  Put it in! ItDelete
doesn't hurt me to NOT use it.  Obviously, there are people interested ine
it, or they wouldn't have started the discussion of how poor an emulation
it was in the first place.  Besides, who are we to say whether flare is
bad camerawork or not.  I have seen several times when it was used in a
desert scene delibarately to show intense heat.  Or in an interrogation
scene to emphasize the brightness of the light as it was swung into the
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eyes of the poor sod being questioned.  Whether or not you should include
it is a matter of personal preference.  What are you trying to convey?
It's your art!  I suppose those who say that you shouldnt use it because
it's something you are supposed to avoid, might also tell Picasso that he
shouldn't put both of those eyes on the same side of her nose.

My Art, My Opinions, My Life.  (My Imagine)

     /----------------------------------------------\
    /    ///  Steve Lopez -> [e-mail]    \
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   /    ///    Student at -> Art Institute of Seattle \
  / \\\///        Program -> Audio & Video Production  \
  \  \XX/ `040'  Computer -> Amiga 2000 GVP040'33 DCTV /
   \                       : DSS8+ 9megs Flicker fxr  /
    \ "I can do that..."   : Midi DJ500c Supra 14.4k /
     \----------------------------------------------/



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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5932 Imagine 2.9 - findings of interest
12/11/93 05:53 25/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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Well, today while using Imagine 2.9 I found a couple of intersting things.

Imagine will sometimes hang during Quickrender for no apparent reason. I
have not seen this happen with 2.0 and it hasn't happened on my A4000,
but today I was at a friend's place and Imagine crashed a couple of times
on his A3000. The only thing I could think of that could cause a problem
would be his Retina... Hmm, still Imagine looks dan good in 1280*1024 on
a 20 " screen.

I've found out an interesting 'feature' with the Font requester. I
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originally put my PS 1 fonts on a drive different to that on which
Imagine is. I properly set the default path for the fonts and yet, when I
would try and load them, nothing would come up until I did a Read and
even then nothing would come up on the requester even though I was in the
right directory. So, I would have to go through choosing the drive, drawer,etc
Well, I've found out that if you put your Fonts drawer into the Imagine
drawer, Imagine finds the fonts straight away! Unfortunately I can't keep
my fonts there, so this needs to be fixed!!! :-) Well, I think that this
is a bug anyway...

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Anyway, that is all for now.

Nik.
[e-mail]

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5933 DAVE W. -HELP! /3.0 states query
12/11/93 10:40 25/ [e-mail] (Steve J. Lombardi)
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Sorry to all about sending this administrative type post to the list,
but my usual system has died, and with it has passed all of the IML admin.
addresses. This is the only one I can remember!!

Dave- my former address was   [e-mail]
      currently find me at    [e-mail]

I look forward to rejoining the list!!

While I'm here, a few Imagine things. Has Impulse rejoined the IML??
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If so I'd like to know if when 3.0 ships, individual objects of a group
will be accessible in the stage/action editors. The more I
use states, the more I realize that this is necessary.  Also, while
I was away has there been any talk about the release of 3.0. I know
that the 2.9 docs said December sometime, but I have my
personal doubts based on Impulses past string of promised release dates.
3.0 would be nice but the reason I ask is that I would
really like the MANUAL.

steve lombardi
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[e-mail]

P.S. Has the C=/HP hype made it here yet? I was pleasantly surprised
to return to Usenet to find that C= mngmnt. may have done something right
for a change!
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5934 Re: NTSC limits
12/11/93 10:51 19/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Dale R Rogers writes:
>
>       Is there a way to get Imagine to only use NTSC safe colors while
>       it's rendering the frames?  Or do I need to run the frames through
>       ADPro after Imagine is finished?

Yes and no.  You can assign colors in Attributes that are less
saturated.  But depending on your lighting, some may come out brighter
than that anyway.  In general, try avoiding pushing any color value
(R,G, or B) above 220.  The exception is white - usually 255,255,255 is
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safe.

The other option is turning on the PAR's filter when converting.  I
don't know exactly what that filter does, except that it noticibly blurs
sharp contrasting details.  It might also bring your color saturation
back down to safe levels.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5935 Re: Imagine 2.9 - findings of interest
12/11/93 11:38 32/ [e-mail]
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Nikola Vukovljak says:
>
> Well, today while using Imagine 2.9 I found a couple of intersting things.
>
> Imagine will sometimes hang during Quickrender for no apparent reason. I
> have not seen this happen with 2.0 and it hasn't happened on my A4000,
> but today I was at a friend's place and Imagine crashed a couple of times
> on his A3000. The only thing I could think of that could cause a problem
> would be his Retina...

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Imagine 2.9 crashed on the first Quickrender I did, but I blamed my memory
configuraion (which seems to work perfectly well for almost everything
else, including IM2.0) -- 16-bit Zorro II fast RAM on an A4000/030 with
burst turned on :)

I found a more interesting problem a couple of days ago.  I was trying to
print from within ProWrite, and rather than printing normally, my printer
started printing bursts of gibberish and beeping randomly and continuously
(it sounded like it was actually in pain).  No error registered on the
printer's LCD readout, but ProWrite would eventually say (incorrectly)
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"printer out of paper".  Cycling the power on the printer to restore all
the settings didn't help at all.  However, resetting the Amiga made the
problem vanish immediately.  Therefore, something in the Amiga's RAM (the
printer driver?) had become corrupted.  I have never seen anything like
this before, and I tried to think of what "bad" software I could have been
running.  The only other things I had been running in that session were
Term 3.4 (no previous problems)...and Imagine 2.9.

Has anyone with an MMU tried running Enforcer with IM2.9?

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--
Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5936 Happy Christmas...
12/11/93 16:00 15/ "Alex..." <[e-mail]>
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Just a quick message to wish everyone on the list a very merry Christmas,
and a happy new year.

And to those of you lucky enough to be reciving Imagine 2.9/3.0 in your
stocking, have fun and think of those of us still beavering away with
our good old copies of 2.0.

Best wishes,
                Alex...

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PS. See you in the new year.

%-----\|/------------------- #include <.siggy.h> --------------------------%
%    (o o)     [e-mail]         -=* Retina's Rule *Bo) *=-  %
%-oOO-(_)-OOo- CSE Student @ Warwick Uni. UK  "All opinions are just mine" %
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5937 good mountain?
12/11/93 17:04 25/ [e-mail] (Mike McCool)
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Hey y'all,

        Has anyone managed to come up with a good texture that
will make a mountain-shaped object actually look like a mountain?
I've been uploading objects created in VistaPro, but needless to
say, these are HUGE, and with Imagine2.9, I just lost another two megs of
ram.
        I've made a nice mountain object, but so far, experiments
with stucco, bumps, crumpled, asteroid, and other essence type
textures has resulted in a bumpy-stucco-crumpled-asteroid-looking object
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but not really a mountain.
        My Mt Fuji full polygon object from VistaPro is gorgeous,
but it's nearly three megs big.
        I'm working on a commercial for a local tofu egg-salad
company, and the woman who owns the company loves Mt Fuji.  I
want one of her Toby's Tofu Pate containers to go wizzing by Mt
Fuji--but with only ten megs of ram, I can get the wizzing tofu
container, or Mt. Fuji--but not both.
        Experiments with the vistaPro rendered Fuji object laid
in as a background picture are passable, but they don't give much
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of a three-D feel.
        So I'm making my own Mt Fuji, though so far it looks more
like Mt Mud.
        Any mountaineers out there?

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5938 Bunch 'o opinions
12/11/93 19:15 147/ Sampson Allan James <[e-mail]>
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Hello all, I've been on the list and not said anything for a long time,
so I guess here's where I make up for it.

 Byrt Martinez wrote,
>>Oh please. How many times in your life have you seen lens flare from your own
>>human eyes? Lens flare on film means the cinematography was bad. Anybody doing
>>photography tries to avoid this at all costs.

 As a professional photographer, sometime cinematographer (three small,
independant films) and general movie and computer graphics nut, I take
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offence to the above.

As Dr. Gandalf pointed out, your eyes exhibit flare effects every time you
look at anything that's lit.  Whether the flare is *apparent to you is
something else altogether. In cameras, there are many variables to
consider when examining the results of flare, a couple of which are the
size of the aperture (i.e. the shape of the aperture determines the shape
of all those little moving hexagons), and the contrast between the light
source and the surrounding background (this determines, in part, the
visibility of the flare). Let's consider cameras and eyes to be virtually
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the same thing (a point which seems to be lost on a few of us). All these
variables still come into play. There's a *reason your car is equipped
with those flip-down sunshades. Driving into the bright sun will wipe out
your entire field of view due to flare within your own eyes. If you're in
the dark and someone shines a bright flashlight in your face what do you
see, the fine outline of the bright bulb filament against a perfect black
background, or a bright ball of light with fine spokes of light radiating
out from the center?

 Some of the most breathtaking imagery I've ever experienced was just so
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because of lens flare.  The establishing shot in Bladerunner still puts
me into a trance every time I see it: the spinners shoot by the camera,
running lights engulfed in flare. Or how about the opening sequence of
2001: A Space Odyssey where the sun slowly creeps from behind the Earth's
surface, majestic orange flare filling the entire screen. Without that
effect, the shot would be mundane, looking like something from a 50's
sci-fi flick. Look at the sequence in Alien where the Nostromo is about
to orbit the moon and the star is showing from behind the planet, or the
landing lights of the Nostromo as she's about to set down.
 I'm sure many of you have these films on video. Go...look at them.
Command:

 I'm using science-fiction films here because they're my passion, but
you can view nearly any film and find flare, chromatic abberation and
many other optical "problems", particularly in extreme lighting
situations.

 Why? Cheap optics perhaps? No, Panavision, Schneider, Cooke, Angenieux
and Zeiss optics...some of the world's finest. Flare is an unavoidable
physical phenomenon, and its often used, on purpose, to great effect.
What ISN'T REALISTIC is the total absence of it in most amateur CG.
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 The effects of the first two films mentioned above were designed and
realized by Douglas Trumbull. Trumbull's effects are considered some of
the finest and most realistic in the business.  Anyone guess what his
trademark is?  Intentional, controlled lens flare. His effects are
the benchmark on which I compare any CG production I do, so its perhaps
not surprising that I've been considering purchasing LightWave.

 I think (if Impulse's true opinions on the topic have been correctly
represented here by Cyrus) that Impulse and others should consider that
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lens flare may be something more than a passing fad, and might be
something very important that has been sadly overlooked until now.
Things like lens flare only seems flashy to those who don't have
experience with real photographic equipment.

 True photographic realism is my aim and film production is my target.
I've been saying for years that a rendering package could never call
itself photorealistic (think about what this term implies) until it
provided basic photographic functionality like depth-of-field, and
shouldn't even bother with animation unless it can simulate motion
Command:
blur. I understand that there are economic factors I'm not considering,
but there's a world of difference between "can't afford to do it" and
"not willing to do it because we don't think it's important".

 Variety is the spice of life.
 My biggest beef is people who believe that nothing is better than
something. Even if those of you who don't want to generate photorealistic
imagery would never use these features, they would be the deciding factor
for *purchase for many of us. And really, even if realism isn't your bag,
look at Nutopia's stuff in Video Toaster User magazine or, better, in Todd
Command:
Rundgren's new CD, and tell me that you wouldn't like the OPTION to be
able to make your images look like that.

[e-mail] wrote:
>edge glowing, anamorphic squeezing, red-ringed, hexagons flying
>toward the camera effect...subtle white starburst or haze

 Yes, that's what I want. If it happens in my real equipment, I want
it to happen in my computer.  I don't necessarily WANT people to know
I generated the images with my computer. Jurassic Park would have been
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pretty different without lens flare, depth-of-field and motion
blur, let me tell you.

 I was discussing using computer graphics for a short "set in space" shot
with a producer about five years ago. His opinion (and mine) was that
the computer graphics would look too "computery". Our concern, quantified,
was that the imagery was too CLEAN (models were decided on before the
project was scrapped). I read somewhere that the Babylon V CG crew worked
like dogs to find ways to "dirty up" their renderings, to kill that
"computer effect" and infuse realism.
Command:

 How many of you (you too, Impulse) have considered that it is possible
that LightWave is being used on SeaQuest and Babylon V BECAUSE the lens
flare, depth-of-field and motion blur effects allow the shots to look
nearly as good as if they were done with models? Now, perhaps Impulse
doesn't want to cater to professional computer artists and the
entertainment industry, but if so, IMNSHO, Impulse should look at the
development of these features as a priority. I would pay a couple
hundred more dollars for these features...perhaps an "Imagine
Professional" is warranted for those of us who want to produce CG
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professionally.

 Concerning doing lens flare and other effects in post with image
manipulation packages:  that just doesn't cut it. The characteristics of
lens flare and other optical abberations depend on the brightness and
location of the lights, particularly in the case of stuff like the
"moving hexagons". For various reasons including the luminance latitude
of the images these effects really have to be done in the rendering
process.

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Off-topic interjection: [This is really the root of the problem because,
you see, the computer (or movie projector) can *never represent in an
image how bright, relative to other objects, the sun *actually is
(leading to [e-mail]'s concern that his lights "lack
visual impact"), and your monitor isn't going to be bright enough anyways
to get the point across, so we need a tool like lens flare to help.]

Additionally, doing depth-of-field requires depth information
not present in a finished rendering, and so also needs to be done in the
rendering process. True motion blur requires access to velocity
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information, frame-rate, "virtual shutter" speed and other information
also not retained in a bitmapped image.

Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail] wrote:
>Not only do we need lens flare, I think
>we need some kind of automated macro to simulate that camera-vibration you
>get when filming airplanes from other airplanes (for more realistic
>fly-throughs), an effect that simulates rain beading on the camera lens
>and dribbling off, a "dirt" texture to apply to everything in sight, and
>so on.
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 Now there's a man after my own heart.

 See ya,

 Allan Sampson,   [e-mail]

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5939 Re: Lens Flare
12/12/93 11:33 20/ Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
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> Computer animation is generally too "perfect", so any trick that can
> reduce this is possibly useful.  Not only do we need lens flare, I think
> we need some kind of automated macro to simulate that camera-vibration you
> get when filming airplanes from other airplanes (for more realistic
> fly-throughs), an effect that simulates rain beading on the camera lens
> and dribbling off, a "dirt" texture to apply to everything in sight, and
> so on.

I agree that this *kind* of thing needs to be done, but keep in mind that a
lot of these things can be done from another program as well.  I especially
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think that the rain idea could be done from an image processing program (not
quite sure how, but I'll work on it.)
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5940 Re: good mountain?
12/12/93 11:46 16/ Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
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>       My Mt Fuji full polygon object from VistaPro is gorgeous,
> but it's nearly three megs big.
> Fuji--but with only ten megs of ram, I can get the wizzing tofu
> container, or Mt. Fuji--but not both.

What you might want to try is loading the mountain into something like
Pixel3D that can reduce the point count.  That way, you could use VistaPro's
object, but without quite as much complexity.  It's a good compromise...
--
     Gordon Schumacher
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/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5941 Re: good mountain?
12/12/93 14:58 49/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>
>container, or Mt. Fuji--but not both.
>       Experiments with the vistaPro rendered Fuji object laid
>in as a background picture are passable, but they don't give much
>of a three-D feel.
>       So I'm making my own Mt Fuji, though so far it looks more
>like Mt Mud.
>       Any mountaineers out there?
>

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    Well short of using big objects, and or textures I'm not sure.  You say
that you can render one or the other, and also composite them.

        So, if you want BOTH moving to get that "3d effect" as you say, why
not try this...(though it might take a while to render).

        1] Create the anim in the stage/action editors with BOTH objects.
                If you can't load both into the stage at once, use a box or
                something similar to get the motion for each...
        2] In the action editor replace one of the objects ACTOR info with
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                the filename for an axis object you make and save in teh
                Detail editor.
        3] Render the anim to the HD.  If it is the plate, render it
                on black.
        4] Now go back to step 2, but make the object you just rendered the
                axis (so it doesn't show), and reset the ground object to
                it.
        5] Now composite each frame from each into the final anim.
                ie: frame 1 from anim1 and anim2 ===> anim3

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        This will be easier if you have Fred or some type of AREXX
knowledge at the least.  This is a somewhat long and tedious solution, but
it will enable to render both objects with a moving camera etc.., and then
to composite them.

        Note: if the object passes behind the mtn, you will have to then
swap which object is on black, and composite them in the opposite order for
those frames.

        I know I'm not too clear....but I think you'll get the idea.  If
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not let me know.

        Good Luck!

--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail] - CWRU, Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
| "It's not how many hours you work, but how much work you put in an hour" |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5942 commercially available object sets for Imagine
12/12/93 16:14 9/ [e-mail] (Rob Lewis)
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Has anyone put together a list of commercially-available objects that
will work with Imagine (for the PC) v2.9 and presumably v3.0? I see an
occasional ad in the back of magazines but haven't been able to find
anyone who has spent the money and evaluated them. If people are willing
to drop me a line, I'd be willing to collate experiences and post a
summary...

Rob Lewis  [e-mail]  StashuBBS 214-394-2726

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5943 Perspective Redraw Bug in 2.9
12/12/93 22:12 21/ [e-mail] (Daniel T. Edwards)
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I have a rather large object (270k) that is about 50 objects grouped
togehter.  I have had problems with 2.9 not filling the perspective window
after some modification (rotation, scaling etc.)
The Perspective window just remians blank.  (maybe some fringe pixels...
but no picture)  If I turn on and off Quickdraw All or None
AND change viewtypes (solid, shaded etc.) several times and
do something else (whatever), The image magicly reappears.

Has this happened to you?
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Yup... I use the screen size hack... In 2 weeks, no problems till now.
So I assume that it's something else.
 ____________________________________________________________
/                                                            \
| Amiga 2000                James R. Walker                  |
| 2MB Chip             [e-mail]           |
| 18MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /                                              |
| 68040 33Mhz |Heinlein,Rand,Clarke,Adams,Asimov,Niven,Worley|
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\____________________________________________________________/
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5944 Lense Flaring Eyeballs!!
12/13/93 01:38 12/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel; ACS (PC)" <[e-mail]>
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Excuse me, but not only do I get lense flares in my eyeballs,
but I get static, NTSC chroma crawl, and CB interference, too.

:-P

just kidding
(in case you couldn't tell)   ;-)

Scott Krehbiel
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5945 RE: Imagine - Real3D Upgrade info.
12/13/93 01:01 14/ [e-mail] (Stephen J.Gowdy)
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I thought I should point out to everyone, why buy Real 3D at #230 when you
can buy Imagine 3.0 at #95 from Amiga Format?

                                                regards,

                                                Stephen.

****************************************************************************
*Stephen J Gowdy                *A4000/040* High Energy Physics Group,     *
*Bitnet: GOWDY AT GWIA          *120 MB HD* Dept Of Physics & Astronomy,   *
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5946 Re: Imagine<-->LightWave
12/13/93 02:11 24/ <[e-mail]>
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On Dec 10, 12:41am, Christian Gottschling wrote:
> Subject: Imagine<-->LightWave
>
> Do   you  know  something  about  an  object-converter  LightWave
> (Toaster) to Imagine?
>
>  MfG, Christian
>
Try a commercial product called Interchange. Works fine.

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Robin

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5947 re: Bunch 'o opinions
12/13/93 07:06 15/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> >>Oh please. How many times in your life have you seen lens flare from
> >>your own human eyes?

> As Dr. Gandalf pointed out, your eyes exhibit flare effects every time you
> look at anything that's lit.

Without entering the debate on whether lens flair is desirable, I can
attest to the fact that your eyes do have it especially if you wear hard
contacts (as I do).  With certain types of hard contact lenses, driving
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at night can be annoying since you get lens flair effects from each of
the oncoming headlights on other automobiles, and from other point
sources of light as well (streetlamps, etc).

  - steve
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5948 RE: Imagine - Real3D Upgrade info.
12/13/93 06:35 65/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> I thought I should point out to everyone, why buy Real 3D at #230 when you
> can buy Imagine 3.0 at #95 from Amiga Format?

Touchy topic, eh? :-)

Without trying to start a flamewar, I'll just say that there is no one
"right" answer here; you get different answers depending on what you are
looking for.  Personally, I've been using Imagine for quite a while, and
even though it can do a lot of things, I have only been able to drool
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over some of the abilities of R3D.  I think the extra price of R3D is
primarily because it is a much more powerful system.

Some of the things from R3D I'd like to see in Imagine The Next
Generation are:

  * An ARexx port!  Imagine is about 4 years late with theirs.  At the
    very _simplest_, I'd like to automate certain repetitive manual
    tasks in Imagine, and be able to write my own user interface
    operations to add to the program.  But there is even more than that.
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    For example, yesterday I was modeling something and I had both
    Imagine and ImageFX running. I'd create brushmaps in ImageFX, render
    in Imagine, look at the results, then tweak one of the brushmaps
    again in ImageFX and start over.  Rather than have to load the
    proper brushmap into ImageFX, I should be able to, from the
    attribute editing box in Imagine, have Imagine pass the brushmap
    directly to ImageFX and automatically flip to ImageFX's screen or
    window.  There are countless other tasks of this sort which would be
    trivial with ARexx to glue everything together.  Instead, I now have
    to manually flip back to the other program's screen, open the right
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    file, modify it, save it again, etc.  The other programs I often use
    with Imagine all have had ARexx ports for a long time (VistaPro,
    ImageFX, etc).  Its the difference between a closed system such as
    Imagine, compared to something like ImageFX in which if it doesn't
    do what I want, I can customize it until it does.

  * Render-while-model.  Right now you have to run two copies of Imagine
    to get this ability, which consumes a lot of RAM and is needlessly
    cumbersome (ie, you can't easily move objects between them, etc).
    R3D is truly multithreaded, so you can have as many windows
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    rendering whatever views as you wish, while you model in other
    windows at the same time.

  * Rule based animation.  Right now in Imagine, you can make paths for
    everything you want to move in your animation.  Instead, I'd like to
    be able to have a large number of objects and simply create my own
    *rules* for how they should move.  For example, you might have a
    huge fishtank with rules for how fish swim and what the fish do when
    they get close to other fish.  This is a much more powerful method
    of animation than having to move everything around yourself.
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I could go on.  I think the biggest issue, for me, is user
extensibility.  Imagine can do a lot of things, particularly when you
add Essence to it.  But R3D is user extensible in a way that Imagine
doesn't even begin to approach.  I wish Impulse would move in that
direction, but I am highly doubtful that they ever will.  Anyway, the
only real things stopping me from going to Real3D are 1) the dongle, 2)
the fact that I've already gotten over the Imagine learning curve, while
I'd have to invest a lot of time to learn a new system, and 3) no
Essence for R3D (this is also why I won't buy Imagine 2.9/3.0 right
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now).  My past experiences of Impulse hostility haven't exactly endeared
Imagine or Impulse to me either.  So for now I am still an Imagine user,
but a frustrated one.

  - steve
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5949 Re: Perspective Redraw Bug in 2.9
12/13/93 07:10 29/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>
>
>The Perspective window just remians blank.  (maybe some fringe pixels...
>but no picture)  If I turn on and off Quickdraw All or None
>AND change viewtypes (solid, shaded etc.) several times and
>do something else (whatever), The image magicly reappears.
>
>Has this happened to you?
>

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        Yes, this is definitely a bug, or just the way the program is MADE
to work.  Here is what seems to happen,

        Take an object, select quickdraw, or draw bbox-edges.  Okay..Save
it.  Now, delete it, then load it back in.  IT WILL NOT DRAW!!(in
perspective).  However, if you undo quickdraw, then it WILL draw.  You can
also redo the the quickdraw after you undo it and it will be okay.

        Bascially, is seems as though quickdraw obejcts don't draw in the
perp window when they are first loaded.
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        I am not using any screen hacks or anything else of that nature.


--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail] - CWRU, Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
| "It's not how many hours you work, but how much work you put in an hour" |
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5950 RE: Imagine3.0 latest (release date)
12/13/93 05:32 18/ "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
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I posted this last week, but it didn't seem to get distrubted either, so...
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: Oxley David on Tue, Dec 7, 1993 11:48 am
Subject: Imagine3.0 latest (release date)
To: IML

Hi all,

I called Impulse last night and talked to Mike H.  I was actually checking
they'd received a fax of a couple of bugs I'd found, plus a list of suggestions
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for 3.0.  I asked him about 3.0 and he said its release was likely to be 'end
of January' (1994 I think, though I didn't ask ;)  He said that the user
interface was being made much more usable, and they wanted to get some other
features right first time.  Sorry I didn't ask him more, but it's not cheap
phoning from this side of the pond :)

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5951 Re: Bunch 'o opinions
12/13/93 09:16 69/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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Sampson Allan James wrote
>  As a professional photographer, sometime cinematographer (three small,
> independant films) and general movie and computer graphics nut, I take
> offence to the above.
>
[ranting and raving and proof of lots of movie watching delete ;)]

>  True photographic realism is my aim and film production is my target.
> I've been saying for years that a rendering package could never call
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> itself photorealistic (think about what this term implies) until it
> provided basic photographic functionality like depth-of-field, and
> shouldn't even bother with animation unless it can simulate motion
> blur. I understand that there are economic factors I'm not considering,
> but there's a world of difference between "can't afford to do it" and
> "not willing to do it because we don't think it's important".
>
>  Variety is the spice of life.
>  My biggest beef is people who believe that nothing is better than
> something.
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Yeah, but some people are just prioritizing.  Maybe they feel that there
are other features that should go in first.  We ALL want ALL the features,
but knowing we can only get them a few at a time,....[BTW, I want lens flare]
>
>  I was discussing using computer graphics for a short "set in space" shot
> with a producer about five years ago. His opinion (and mine) was that
> the computer graphics would look too "computery". Our concern, quantified,
> was that the imagery was too CLEAN (models were decided on before the
> project was scrapped). I read somewhere that the Babylon V CG crew worked
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> like dogs to find ways to "dirty up" their renderings, to kill that
> "computer effect" and infuse realism.

Yeah, the Endeavor looks like it just ran the Baja 2000 (NOT);)  You did
say realism, not popular opinion, right?;)

>
>  Concerning doing lens flare and other effects in post with image
> manipulation packages:  that just doesn't cut it. The characteristics of
> lens flare and other optical abberations depend on the brightness and
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> location of the lights, particularly in the case of stuff like the
> "moving hexagons". For various reasons including the luminance latitude
> of the images these effects really have to be done in the rendering
> process.
>
> Additionally, doing depth-of-field requires depth information
> not present in a finished rendering, and so also needs to be done in the
> rendering process. True motion blur requires access to velocity
> information, frame-rate, "virtual shutter" speed and other information
> also not retained in a bitmapped image.
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>
Well, as far as doing things "correctly", I'm not sure this is true.  Lightwave
doesn't trace(usually), so its reflections aren't perfect, etc.  I'm not
ripping on Lightwave, just trying to show a point.  Lightwave doesn't do
things the "real" way, and yet its output looks fantastic.  Lots of tricks
are used to achieve desired effects just because the "correct" way is too
costly.  Algorithmic textures could be considered cheating("why not model those
waves, its more realistic"(yeah, right)), but "everyone" uses them(even
those hams at Jurasic Pork(sorry)).  So whether its all done in one package,
isn't really pertinent.  It how it looks that counts.[Several examples come
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to mind, but I think(and hope) you get the point.]


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5952 RE: Essence?
12/13/93 05:30 21/ "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
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I posted this last week, but it didn't appear to get distributed, so...
_______________________________________________________________________________
To: IML
From: Oxley David on Mon, Dec 6, 1993 1:37 pm
Subject: Re: Essence?

On Sun, Dec 5, 1993 8:53 am, Jeff Saffold wrote:

>So, is the new Essence for 2.9 going to be ready soon?  And if so, how
>much will the upgrade to it cost, or will (Since its the Christmas
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>season.:) Be sent for free to registered Essence owners?

I doubt it'll be free, seeing as Steve and Glenn will have to put a fair amount
of effort into altering and testing the 100-200 (I can't remember, there's sooo
many :) textures.  Even if the actual change is a simple "global replacement"
type thing, there's still duplication and distribution costs to cover (and
maybe some profit?).  I'd hope for something in the region of $25 to registered
users.  Am I being a bit too hopeful?

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5953 more disk space?
12/13/93 10:39 16/ [e-mail]
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I don't think I truly understand the release notice that was sent to help
install imagine... one thing is that the low density MSDOS disk is 720k
and the low density amiga disk is 880k. also to install is very simple
just move the icon of the disk to a window on your workbench screen and
all of it is copied over. Than double click on the .lha files and requester
appears in which you type the lharc -x (filename already here).
        I get the feeling they have not upgraded any of their amiga equipment
or their development practices for the amiga. thus lacking arexx etc.
        So I guess what I was wondering is are they mormons down there
or something? I hear you can get ex communicated if you own something
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other than an IBM.....:)

(just venting some frustration please don't turn the IML upside down flamming)

                                                        Lesk
PS. the file requester still //////....
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5954 Re: Lens Flare
12/13/93 11:08 23/ [e-mail]
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>  Too Often I have tried to emulate an intense light source and find
> that my efforts are sadly lacking, the light lacks visual impact.
> However I see an image rendered in LW and i think WOW, I love the
> diffuse light glow and it would be nice to have those optical
> artifacts for the occasional use.

Sadly, I am not a user of Imagine.  I am, however, a user of POV-Ray
which also does not intentionally provide lens flare.  But I have
found a way to get a diffuse light glow (limited lens flare/glare).
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I point the camera at a reflective surface that has some phong
highlighting applied to it.  The scene is placed in front of this
mirror.  The lights that are visible in the scene create a phong
"flare" on the mirror:

                                             |
Objects, lights, etc.          camera -->    | reflective surface
                                             |

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Perhaps this can work in Imagine also.

 -- Roy Harper
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5955 RE: good mountain?
12/13/93 10:42 31/ Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail].m
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  I use VistaPro landscape objects quite often and I have found out a few
things.  First, in VistaPro, only select that portion of the DEM that you
actually need.  For instance, if you just want Mt. Fuji, just pick those
blocks that have the mountain without the surrounding countryside.  This
will save on the final object size.  The other thing is to select a lower
polygon and texture setting.  In Vistapro, 1 is the largest polygon size and
8 is the highest.  If you don't need an absolutely smooth landscape,
somewhere in between usually provides satisfactory results and really
reduces the object's memory size.
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   What I have found best to get a more realistic image from these landscape
objects is to ignore the polygon coloring that VistaPro applies.  I load the
object into Imagine and just set all the faces white.  What I have found
that works best to get the look of a landscape is a high-res brushmap.  This
is where it gets a little difficult because it is pretty hard to get a good
high-quality digitized overhead view of some mountains.  If you are
resourceful enough, you can improvise.  Anyway, you want to get a brushmap
with rivulets (I guess that's what they are called, the grooves running down
the sides of mountains due to runoff) and some contrast.  You can always
apply several layers of brushmaps, too.  Take one and make it an altitude
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map then overlay that with a "bare" mountain map, then overlay that with a
"snow-covering" map.  You might have some luck just drawing an overhead view
of the bare mountain in some paint program, for the basic color then
overlaying a snow covering brushmap.  Mt. Fuji should be fairly easy since
it is a basic dark purple/black color.  It helps to use the Roughness
attribute when rendering although there are some quirks with it so it is a
matter of personal preference.  Anyway, with Phong shading and the
application of  brushmaps, the landscape object can have fewer polygons and
still look good.  Hope this helps.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5956 re: Bunch 'o opinions
12/13/93 13:55 32/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|
|> >>Oh please. How many times in your life have you seen lens flare from
|> >>your own human eyes?
|
|> As Dr. Gandalf pointed out, your eyes exhibit flare effects every time you
|> look at anything that's lit.
|
|Without entering the debate on whether lens flair is desirable, I can
|attest to the fact that your eyes do have it especially if you wear hard
|contacts (as I do).  With certain types of hard contact lenses, driving
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|at night can be annoying since you get lens flair effects from each of
|the oncoming headlights on other automobiles, and from other point
|sources of light as well (streetlamps, etc).

        Yep.  And tears in the eyes can increase the effect.  Also,
        squinting the eyes can produce lense flair.  As well as driving on
        a rainy night and having lights flaring through a wet windshield.

        I'm sure we could come up with hundreds of examples.  Face it...
        it's a natural phenomena.  If we're going to accurately reproduce
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        reality, we need it.

        Dale


        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
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        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5957 trees...
12/13/93 17:37 9/ [e-mail]
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I want to thank those that replied to my question on the transparancy/filter
attributes to make some 2d banches for trees.
 I made a white bitmap with lots of black holes in it, used that as a
transparancy map, applied it on a 2d outline of a tree top, gave it a green
color and added a crumpled texture and viola! some cool looking leaves.  I
then copied that object and rotated 90 degrees to fill the tree out so now
its 3d.
 Thanks guys!
 Dave.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5958 re: Bunch 'o opinions
12/13/93 23:02 22/ [e-mail]
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Dale R Rogers says:
>
>       Yep.  And tears in the eyes can increase the effect.  Also,
>       squinting the eyes can produce lense flair.  As well as driving on
>       a rainy night and having lights flaring through a wet windshield.
>
>       I'm sure we could come up with hundreds of examples.  Face it...
>       it's a natural phenomena.  If we're going to accurately reproduce
>       reality, we need it.

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After several days of this discussion, I can't stop noticing lens flare on
TV.  I was watching a Guns 'N Roses video a couple of hours ago (the new
one with the stupid dolphins), and it was just lens flare, lens flare,
lens flare every other shot:  live concert clips shot into the stage
lights, pretend "live" shots of police running around flashing bright
lights, that bleeding effect you get from shooting car headlights even if
they _aren't_ flaring, and so on.  I'm starting to think that it's the
rule, rather than the exception, at least for cameras, and we presumably
want to simulate cameras, at least some of the time (or does "reality"
include hanging around in absolute-zero vacuum, watching the spaceships
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whoosh by? ;)

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5959 2.9 random toughts and SPEED !?!?!?!
12/14/93 10:32 82/ [e-mail] (Isaac Psycho Guajardo)
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Hi everyone :

It's been a long time last posted here - just received 2.9 and spend
the weekend working with it and would like to share some toughts that
i think haven't been discused here ( at least to my knowledge ) - I
hope to get some feed back from you :

- First thing, check old bugs ... and all the ones i checked are still
there : Error on slice command (An edge is to close to bla bla bla ),
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No global brushmap reflection of objects with a filtered object in front
of them, no fix on closed path stutter, when using animated brushmaps on
an object it won't quickrender on stage and can't morph objects with them,
now - the animated brushmaps don't cycle when less pic's than frames -
they seem to average along the frames (ie. 5 pics/10 frames instead of
two cycles would put pic 1 on frames 1,2 pic 2 on frames 3,4 etc.) - I
wonder why they changed it ?, no morph between objects with different face
count - very bad now with the power of states !, black areas on filtered
objects with refraction on trace mode (ie. glass cube)  ... by now i stop
checking, didn't get to fog objects and more, i sadly realized that
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Impulse started improving the product without fixing it first, I hope
they do with 3.0 !!!

- And some new bugs found too .ok, ok i know this is still beta and probably
they already know about them, but still here they are ... on proyect when
making anims it would get the paletted all messed up in some cases and
would always crash the machine when trying to play it - the docs say about
this bug on AGA but mine is an A3000,  on particle f/x when using emission
it would crash the machine if emission percent is larger than 100 ... and
the ones that have been already pointed out on the list.
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- Comments about 2.9 ... real time response (camera alignment, quick edges,
perspective) is GREAT now i miss it when working on 2.0, new mode to edit
on perspective is a BIG help, deformations are a great improvement BUT to
my opinion the bend option is wrong, it's more like a wave distortion
instead of a true bending, the top of the object remains fixed and the work
around - scaling Z twice the height of the object - would "bend" but no
more than 40 degrees without distorting heavily the object, Impulse should
look at Lightwave to see how a "bend" works, particles objects it's a
start and the particle F/X works great BUT it doesn't use the object axis
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for the movement direction as one would have expected (Impulse uses the axis
almost for everything), it uses min/max angles on the requester and since
the F/X can't be morphed the effect gets linear, make an engine exaust
with emission that looks GREAT but the ship can't be rotated because the
particles would stay in it's original direction - but again it's a start,
states are extremely usefull a PLUS "new stuff" and bones are suppoused to
be better as Impulse says, just hope they fix the morphing between different
objects (Look at the hammer arm on the robot tutorial!), the new palette
requester, well, i don't know, it slows things a bit in some cases, the new
splines editor it's a start, again, why Postscript fonts only ? what about
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standard Amiga fonts and/or bit-maps - THAT would be a really "new stuff",
new stage editor options (layers, associate, etc.) are a plus add-on ...
in general to my opinion on 1-10 scale, it's a 7.5 ...ok ok, it's a beta
just to keep us calm until 3.0 ... THEY BETTER !!!!

- NOW, some have been asking  about SPEED and haven't seen any comments
about it, well i did a test scene on 2.0 with some objects and attributes
including reflections, filter/refraction, shiny objects and such, no
textures and a global brush map, WELL, see for yourself :

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On A3000 with 68040, 18 Mb RAM, 80 x 50 pixels image :

Imagine 2.0 scanline 0' 11"
Imagine 2.0 trace    4' 38"

Imagine 2.9 scanline 0' 14" new palette 0' 10" prev. palette
Imagine 2.9 trace    0' 29" new palette 0' 25" prev. palette

YES, 25 seconds versus four minutes 38 seconds !!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS BEYOND !

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The same at 768 x 482 was 19' 24" ... with Imagine 2.0 would take more
than TWO HOURS (I cancel at 60%) !!!!

THAT IS THE MOST "NEW STUFF" WORTH THE 100 BUCKS ALONE !!! Impulse ....
thank you thank you thank you ....

Sorry about the bandwith hope it was worth something my 2 cents and
excuse my English "My brain was abused by my mother as a child !".

Isaac (Psycho) Guajardo
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[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5960 PAL to NTSC patch for 2.0?
12/14/93 10:38 23/ Mark Boulding <[e-mail]>
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--
+===================================================================+
| Mark Boulding c/o FB&T      | Internet: [e-mail]    |
| 750 17th St., NW, Ste. 1100 | CIS: 72401,2400  Prodigy: TDRC42A   |
| Washington, DC 20006        | AOL: boulding    GEnie: M.BOULDING  |
+===================================================================+

So I wander into my neighborhood Borders bookstore, resolved to just
browse for a change, and there it is: the Amiga Format issue with
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Imagine 2.0 as the coverdisk.  Can I resist?  No.  I own both a PC and
and Amiga, as well as Imagine 2.9 for the PC.  The Amiga 2.0 version
would be great for rendering small projects while I do other stuff on
the PC.  Plus, I have a genlock card for my Amiga 2000HD, so I could
do all those neat genlock object effects.

Next question:  How do I patch the PAL version to work on my NTSC
Amiga?  Is the answer in the archives?  Or, if it's easy, could someone
post it again here?

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I'm sorry if this question has been asked before...Thanks for any help.

Mark
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5961 Anyone have Pagerender 3d??
12/14/93 13:58 16/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
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I'm trying to use Arexx to create some algorythmic animations
by creating motion files for Videoscape (since ISL doesn't work
with Imagine 1.1 staging files).  Unfortunately I don't have the
control that I need - for instance, I can't have 1000 objects
flying in formation without doing the load requestor in
V3D 1000 times ..  :-P  forget that!

I remember that Pagerender 3d had Arexx control.  Anyone have it?
Anyone want to sell it cheap?  If you have it, whether you want to
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sell it or not, please contact me... I'd like to ask about a
few features.

Thanks
Scott Krehbiel
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5962 Association problem
12/14/93 18:00 25/ [e-mail] (Steve J. Lombardi)
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I would like to use the associate command to get at individual objects
in the stage editor as if they were a group. In theory if I load
5 objects and associate all of them to the same axis, as I move or rotate
the axis the 5 objects should follow, as if they were a group. The advantage
is that I should then be able to simultaneously rotate/move each of the 5
objects independantly. currently in 2.9 there is no way to get at the
individual objects of a group in the stage editor(although this
is promised for 3.0) soooooo.....

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I CAN'T GET IT TO WORK!! Am I simply missing something or am I a moron?
Here's what I do:

1. in stage load a few objects and an axis. save and go to action.
2. add associate bar to each of the objects. enter the AXIS as the associate
object for each. save. go back to stage.

Now in the stage I should be able to move the AXIS and have the objects move
with it. they don't. Ive tried saving and reloading and evenb the A-c key
sequence to load the frame. nothing. any input is appreciated, as an
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animation I'm working on NEEDS this ability in the worst way. thanks.

--
steve lombardi
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5963 Moses on Mt Fuji
12/14/93 22:17 28/ [e-mail] (Mike McCool)
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Hey guys,

        Thanks immeasurably, for the enthusiastic suggestions for
my 'good mountain' project.  The responses are amazing--god do
you guys know your stuff!

        I have acted on all your suggestions, with fabulous
results.  And I saved most of your suggestions--except for one
very lucid one, in which somebody out there described how to
brushmap a mountain texture onto an artificially created mountain
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object.

        Whoever you are, you mentioned doing a "Z-wrap."  As I am
hardly adept at brushmapping, I had to ask, 'does this mean just
a wrap-z setting, with no x- setting?'  You responded
affirmatively, just z-wrap, with no x-option selected.

        Problem:  my versions of Imagine won't allow me not to
select an x-option.  One or the other of the x buttons has to be
pushed.  They won't let me not push them.
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        So excuse my bothering you again, since you were kind
enough to respond the first time--but pretend I'm blind deaf and
dumb, and lead me out of the darkness.

        Desperately seeking the person who's desperately seeking Susan,
        John Michael McCool

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5964 Bernoulli Drive/5carts $495
12/15/93 00:06 27/ Tim Salazar <[e-mail]>
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Just heard about this great deal:

Bernoulli is trying to get its new cartridge drives into the market. They
want to beat Sysquest. They are offerring a special offer thru "service
houses/bureaus". Offer Expires Dec 31, 1993.

$499 for 5 150meg disks and an external drive unit.

This is like getting the drive for free.

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The cartridges are almost bullet proof. They pass a 5' drop test and they
hold 150meg and are accessed at 18ms.

The drive is a transportable external. It has a handle for carrying.

Drive 2yr warranty, disk 5 yr warranty.

Please do not email me.

Either call my service bureau 619-729-4020 ask for Terry or he is on GEnie
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from inet [e-mail].

Leave him you name address zip fax# etc and he will send you a form to send
to Iomega for the special offer.

Tell him Tim sent you.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5965 subscribe
12/15/93 02:43 1/ [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5966 EDLE thing on 2.0 and 2.9 ...
12/15/93 09:23 20/ [e-mail] (Isaac Psycho Guajardo)
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Thanks a lot to the ones who have responded to my random thoughts !

Several have asked about my EDLE settings (antialiasing) and first, they
are at 30 and have always been, why ? ... i have a Firecracker 24 bit
board and all my renderings are on 24 bit to tape by single frame recording
(soon to PAR, i hope - as soon as i figure out how to connect the hard disk
drive of the PAR externaly, not to much space left on my A3000 !) and when
i got the FC/24 i did a lot of testing regarding the EDLE setting but i
didn't noticed any change in image quality with the default and 0, but the
penalty in speed. I rendered several images and loaded them to the FC/24
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one on top of the other without seeing any significant change, they looked
as if i where loading the same image over and over again.

I have always complained about the antialiasing done by Imagine ... does
this happens to you ? I know Steve Worley recomends putting 0 when
rendering the final image, and he must have a reason, but in my case i
can't see anithing but an increase of rendering time.

Merry Xmas, Isaac (Psycho) Guajardo
            [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5967 Rockets Red Flare...
12/15/93 15:02 133/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
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content-type:text/plain;charset=us-ascii
mime-version:1.0

Gee, what a way to get lots of mail! If I ever feel lonely during the holidays,
I'll know what to do! ;)

Okay, maybe ALL was a harsh word to use. How about MOST?

Several counterexamples & comments:

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> However, like a camera, the human eye also has the lens flare effect.

  - Perhaps, but the lens flare people are demanding is the type produced by
    a camera lens. Doesn't lens flare just boil down to simple reflection?
    If you really wanted to model this, you should be able to, right? :)

> Human vision also exhibits motion blur.

  - I have a problem with this one. Isn't motion blur due to discrete sampling?
    i.e. frames of film? frames of video? Maybe if you can show me that the
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    optic nerve samples the incoming light, I'll buy this argument.

> If you think Imagine is any where near imitating natural lights and their
  affects then you need to first open your own eyes.

  - I never said it did. But, (personal opinion here!) I would much rather
    Impulse would work on natural lighting rather than lens flare.

> If I want to see some pretty extreme lens flares all I have to do is put on
  my contact lenses.
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  - Yeah, but that's still an external influence. Contact lenses are not part
    of your natural eyes. I wear glasses, I'm not going to say that the ghost
    images I see are attributed to MY eyes.

> IMO, realism is NOT one of the goals.

  - Huh? This one I DON'T get. Say you did want to simulate a camera, ( and
    no where did I say that you wouldn't want to) then why do you want lens
    flare? By introducing lens flare, you're trying to add realism to your
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    virtual camera. I think you mean "view of realism" vs. "view from a
    camera of realism", right? This IS an artistic decision, but it does show
    the television/film paradigm, "If it's on a screen or on paper, it MUST
    have come from a camera." Computer animation IS a new media. Why constrain
    it with attributes of another media? (This, of course, precludes the use
    of CGI for film/video purposes, in which your point of view would prevail)

>  A computer animation is never seen with the naked eye - it's always on a
   screen, or on paper, or whatever. You're not trying to simulate naked-eye
   reality, in other words - not really.
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   - Okay, ( I know this is WAY out there, but...) what about virtual reality?
     Would you want to simulate lens flare in that context? I wouldn't.

>  Lens flare is a consequence of an imperfect optical system. The human eyes
   are an imperfect optical system. You won't see lens flare as manifested by
   multiple hexagons in a row, but you can indeed see lens flare from your eyes.
   If you have ever seen rings around headlights or streetlights at night you
   have seen it.

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   - Hmmm... Isn't lens flare a result of reflections against the lens of a
     severe brightness behind the lens, the light passing through the iris and
     hitting, I guess, the film? I don't understand where the imperfection
     comes in. Rings around headlights or streetlights at night I would
     attribute to diffusion from surrounding fog/air, not an imperfection of the
     eye. Perhaps you can expand on this. (email, please). BTW, I think Impulse
     implementing proper fog would have a higher priority than lens flare. :)


> For example, what was your first reaction to the Rodney King video?
Command:

   - Well I know it wasn't, "Gee, how can I model this in Imagine? Hmmm, can't
     do it. No lens flare!"  :)


> Yeah, but some people are just prioritizing.  Maybe they feel that there
  are other features that should go in first.  We ALL want ALL the features,
  but knowing we can only get them a few at a time,....[BTW, I want lens flare]

  - Oh my god! Somebody DID get the point! Never did I say lens flare shouldn't
Command:
    be part of the package, though many inferred this. I WOULD much rather
    have other features implemented first, which CAN'T be done post-render:
    depth-of-field, real fog/haze/gases, inverse kinematics, etc..
    Lens flare & even motion blur can be done post-render. Read "Undertanding
    Imagine" for motion blur tips. Yes, I consider lens flare LOW priority.
    When these other, more useful, features are implemented, then Impulse
    can work on implementing lens flare, HAM fringing, chroma crawl, color
    blindness, static, dirty windshields, fake camera jitter (NYPD Blue),
    real camera jitter, camcorder w/ anti-camera jitter feature, etc...

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    Someone almost burst a blood vessel because it was suggested that lens
    flare be done during image-processing instead of within Imagine. That's
    like getting p**sed off at a paint manufacturer because the Burnt Sienna
    wasn't burnt enough. If we are indeed artists, then we work with the
    tools available until new tools come out. That's part of the artistic
    process, ingenuity.

    Anyway, my point wasn't to say there isn't a need for it, because there is;
    when integrating CG into film or video. I was also not referring to normal
    streaking type of lens flare that human eyes exhibit. I'll admit I didn't
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    make this clear. What bothered me is the hexagonal, lens flare artifacting
    that is apparent in some cinematography. This is what I understand that
    most people are demanding. You have to admit there is potential for overuse.
    Even Babylon V went a little to far for me. If you can make a living making
    Guns & Roses videos using the lens flare feature alone, fine. I just think
    it's much ado about ... very little.

    Well sorry for the length, but I know I'd be REAL p**sed if Imagine 3.0
    is being held back because Impulse is still trying to get the lens flare
    to work. Oh well, supply & demand.
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--
@******************************************************************************@
*                                      "When you point your finger 'cause your *
*  Byrt Martinez                        plan fell through, you've got 3 more   *
*  - Non-Christian  8^P                 fingers pointing back at you."         *
*    (Fred 12:45)                       - Dire Straits                         *
*                                                                              *
*  [e-mail], [e-mail]                           *
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@******************************************************************************@









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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5968 rough edges?
12/15/93 17:06 21/ [e-mail]
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Hello all Imaginiacs;
        I was trying to get the edge of a drafting table to not have the
"JAGGIES" since it is just a square with a face on it I was wondering
if edle set to 0 would help, but it didn't. so I set some other settings
and Viola all it did was take longer to render.

        OK question: If I use a grid with lots of points and faces will
                     That help?
                   : Or what about soft edges even though I want a crisp
                     Transition, thats why I didnt use phong.
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                   : Or should I use phong with make sharp?
I am trying to get the kind of quality I see in "BEYOND the MINDS EYE"
but I am having some very ameture looking pieces show up and usually with
THE JAGGIES.....

                                                Thanks for any help
                                                        Lesk

P.S. My accellorator M1230XA came today. It really really works! all 16Meg
        Boy was it hard to sit on 2.9 without the chance to play!
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        Yep I feel my sanity comming back....
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5969 2.9 STATES BUGS
12/15/93 19:52 22/ "Steve J. Lombardi" <[e-mail]>
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Is nayone else experiencing weird states problems. mine are so strange
that I can't even fully explain them here. but I can reproduce them.
I'm going to call Impuls and try to explain, but first I'd like to see
if anyone else is having similar problems.

1. when updating a state's grouping, other state's grouping is altered. the
states are added, the stranger the behavior gets.

2. twice I've had a state 'disappear' as if I deleted it when in
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fact all Ive done is "SET" to it.

3. In the stage editor certain objects in the group often do not
show up in the tri-view windows, but I'll see them in the
perspective camera view.

number 3 is a minor annoyance. 1 and 2 make the states a pain in the
ass (non)feature to use. Anyone else??

                    |
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steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5970 Happy Holidays!
12/16/93 04:22 29/ [e-mail] (Paul Marino)
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Happy Holidays to Everyone!

Just a small message to everyone on the IML wishing
Happy Holidays and A Joyful New Year!

I have just U/L'ed an image I produced for my
annual holidays card (It's very Christmas oriented).

The piece is called "The Magic of Giving."

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Its located on wuarchive...pix/trace(on wustl) as XmasGiveJPG.lha
(Its real small, about 55k)

It was rendered entirely in Imagine2.x w/ some paint
in Light24.

BTW, the "Happy Holidays" text was created with the new
spline editor in 2.9..


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Has anybody had troubles loading Type 1 fonts into this editor?

Its seems that every Type 1 font I load in, all I wind up
with is a lone axis. (with the exception of the one I used...)


Anyway, enjoy it everyone...
Paul Marino.
([e-mail])
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5971 EDLE thing on 2.0 and 2.9 ...
12/16/93 07:04 28/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> this happens to you ? I know Steve Worley recomends putting 0 when
> rendering the final image, and he must have a reason, but in my case i
> can't see anithing but an increase of rendering time.

There can be a big difference but it depends on your image.  Some images
won't show any improvement.

Generally, the if you have small, regular detail, you'll see
improvements with antialiasing.  Things which are otherwise just at the
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edge of your resolution limit will show up better with EDLE 0.  For
example, I recently rendered a picture with a brick texture - the width
of the mortar ended up being less than the pixel size at my default
resolution.  This made the mortar be "missed" by Imagine in many places,
resulting in horrible aliasing artifacts and a brick wall that didn't
look like brick at all.  By cranking EDLE all the way to 0, most of
these problems were eliminated.  Another common case is very close
parallel lines.

However, for large regions of color, you won't see any difference at
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all.

The best thing would be antialiasing which could be set on a per-object
basis, so you could have it turned on for objects that needed it, and
off otherwise.  We don't have that though.  I seem to recall that one of
the other popular programs (Aladdin?  Real3D?) has that ability.

  - steve
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5972 Re: 2.9 STATES BUGS
12/16/93 07:25 14/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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        I have been experiencing bugs with states as well.  I have deleted
a state, the whole state, not just the position, only to have it
re-appear.  In addition, for some reason, an axis in one of my objects
that was controlled by a state had its X-axis backwards, while in the
other state it was fine.  No amout of transforming could correct it.


        Anyone else?...

        Cyrus J. Kalbrener
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                Digital_Cel


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5973 memory use of Imagine
12/16/93 08:02 57/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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I think there are a number of things Impulse could do to dramatically
reduce Imagine's memory use.  I know sending these suggestions to
Impulse won't do any good, so I'll post 'em here instead, which also
won't do any good, except I'll feel better about it :-)

  - Right now, if you have a single brushmap mapped to more than one
    object, Imagine loads the brushmap into memory once for each object.
    It could easily load the brushmap once and use it for every object
    which has it as a map.  That could save a *lot* of RAM in some
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    cases.

  - Right now you can take an object and copy it multiple times.  You
    get multiple copies of this object all taking as much RAM as the
    original.  Some 3D programs permit you to make "instances", which
    have their own position, size, and alignment vectors, but simply
    point to the actual object (polygon/etc) data from the first object.
    This has two benefits.  First, for objects which are identical but
    repeated, you save huge amounts of RAM.  Second, any changes made to
    the first object will be seen in the instances as well without
Command:
    having to change them all.  This is probably the single biggest
    thing I wish for in Imagine.  There are some limits to this
    technique, such as if you apply an explode (etc.) effect to one, all
    the instances will do the same thing.  Same for texture morphing,
    etc.  But for most static objects, this is a wonderful thing to
    have.  I have have seen claims that Aladdin 4D can do this.  I also
    wrote a small PD renderer ages and ages ago which did it (in a
    primitive way).  Its not that hard to do.  It can go a *long* ways
    towards reducing memory usage.

Command:
Anyway, I discovered something recently.  There is a freeware program
called "VMM40" which can be used to add virtual memory to Imagine (and
almost anything else for that matter.  There are several commercial
programs for virtual memory as well, but this one is free).  This
program is on aminet, and currently in its first release with a few
rough edges, but it shows a lot of promise.  I tried it with Imagine 2.0
(FP version) last night, and it seems to work just fine.  Even after
loading my (rather large) OS environment with a bunch of programs,
having a GNU emacs running, about 4 shell windows, a terminal program,
and Imagine 2.0/FP with some big objects in the detail editor, I had 32
Command:
Mb *free* on my 18 Mb system :-).  This is with about 40 total processes
loaded on the system.  I could have easily done the same without virtual
memory in less than 18 Mb, but wanted to try VM with Imagine:

I did some testing in Imagine by making an object with a huge number of
polygons and copying it many times in the detail editor.  Imagine seems
tolerable to use even if it is swapping.  The only thing that causes any
problems is the perspective window update.  If some of your objects are
swapped out, the perspective window will access them all when it does
its redraw, causing some amount of swapping to get them back in again.
Command:
Otherwise, modeling works fine - the objects you are working with a lot
tend to get swapped in and stay there.  Rendering seems to work OK too,
and not be bothered too much by swapping.  I suppose if you push things
too far (try to render something requiring 30 Mb in only 4 Mb of
physical RAM) you might have troubles.  But otherwise it works well.

  - steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5974 Re: memory use of Imagine
12/16/93 11:21 24/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Steve Koren writes:
>
>   - Right now, if you have a single brushmap mapped to more than one
>     object, Imagine loads the brushmap into memory once for each object.
>     It could easily load the brushmap once and use it for every object
>     which has it as a map.  That could save a *lot* of RAM in some
>     cases.

Indeed.  This reminded me of one of the most annoying things about
Imagine - the fact that it loads each brushmap and object from disk
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everytime a new frame is loaded -- both in rendering (increasing
rendering times needlessly), and when working in the Stage editor
(making it very frustrating to design animation, and increasing
wireframe preview rendering times).  I've asked here several times if
this is "fixed" in 2.9, but since nobody has said so, I assume it
isn't.


> called "VMM40" which can be used to add virtual memory to Imagine (and

Command:
Is that the one that only works with a 68040 CPU?

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5975 Re: memory use of Imagine
12/16/93 13:22 53/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
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> I think there are a number of things Impulse could do to dramatically
> reduce Imagine's memory use.  I know sending these suggestions to
> Impulse won't do any good, so I'll post 'em here instead, which also
> won't do any good, except I'll feel better about it :-)

I thought of another idea, which I might try to simulate now. I only have 9Mb
and have hit my RAM limit. I have a setup that won't render at all, even in
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Trace mode.

What I was thinking of was a way to partition the stage into a number of
segments that would be render separately. Each completed render would be
the backgound image of the next rendered segment. Let me see if I can make a
top view of what I mean:

            |      |
       +----|------|------+
       |    |      |      |
Command:
       |    |      |      |                    \
       |  1 |  2   |  3   |                  ---* camera
       |    |      |      |                    /
       |    |      |      |
       +----|------|------+
            |      |

The box represents the scene you are rendering (which takes up too much RAM).
Segment 1 would be rendered first and saved as an image file. Segment 2 would
then be rendered using Segment 1's image file as a background map. Segment 3
Command:
would use the resulting image file from Segment 2's rendering. You would now
have the entire scene rendered, I think, as if it were done all at once.

Of course, your rendering time would be much greater, but it could solve a
low RAM solution in time of crisis. (Like when RAM prices jump :))

I haven't tried this yet. The only thing I can think of that would be a problem
would be reflections, shadows, etc. But I think in Scanline it would be okay?
I'm going to try this after finals are over.

Command:
What do you think?

--
@******************************************************************************@
*                                      "When you point your finger 'cause your *
*  Byrt Martinez                        plan fell through, you've got 3 more   *
*  - Non-Christian  8^P                 fingers pointing back at you."         *
*    (Fred 12:45)                       - Dire Straits                         *
*                                                                              *
*  [e-mail], [e-mail]                           *
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@******************************************************************************@


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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5976 Re: memory use of Imagine
12/16/93 13:22 20/ Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
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> Anyway, I discovered something recently.  There is a freeware program
> called "VMM40" which can be used to add virtual memory to Imagine (and
> almost anything else for that matter.  There are several commercial
> programs for virtual memory as well, but this one is free).  This
> program is on aminet, and currently in its first release with a few

Could you perhaps direct me to this?  I'm trying to Imagine in 3M (!) of
memory, an' it just doesn't cut it.  I looked on Aminet, but the only
thing I could find was a source-only program called VMem.  Is this the
one you mean, and if so, could it be compiled and made available?
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Thanx,
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5977 Re: memory use of Imagine>Anyway,I discovered something rec
12/16/93 15:34 19/ [e-mail]
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>called "VMM40" which can be used to add virtual memory to Imagine (and

I got this program yesterday and immediately tried it.
I have a 2000 with a GVP Combo 040, 4mb 32-bit, 6mb 16-bit.

I also have a 312mb hd at scsi 6 and a 105mb hd at scsi 0.

It ran perfect with everything I tried.  Then I noticed something.
My vmem partition is on device 6.  Well the scsi light was blinking
its little head off BUT was writing to my internal 105!!!!!!!!
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WATCH OUT!!!
This program was written for A4000's which can only have 2 units
on the "scsi-look-alike-ide" device.  If you do use this program
MAKE SURE your vmem partition is on unit 0.
I found out that it took the block numbers for the partition on
drive 6 but used them on drive 0.  A very bad move!
Luckily I had backups.  Other than that, everything worked fine!

David.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5978 Re: memory use of Imagine
12/16/93 16:22 29/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] writes:

> Could you perhaps direct me to this?  I'm trying to Imagine in 3M (!) of

Since several other people asked, I'll just post it to the list.  I got
it from aminet under the following location:

   os30/util/VMM40_V1_0.lha

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Like I mentioned before, this is still a bit rough around the edges.
But it shows promise, and the author has asked for feedback on how to
make it better.  Right now, a bug apparently prevents you from using
more than 4 Mb of physical RAM to back your virtual memory.  This is
fine for small-memory systems (0-6 Mb) but its a real bummer for those
of us with 18 Mb :-)  But I assume this will be fixed in time.

> thing I could find was a source-only program called VMem.  Is this the

No, that's something else.  Not sure what that one is.
Command:

There are a couple of commercial ones too, but I have no experience
with those.

  - steve

PS - why does the "To:" field from IML posts now always say
"email.email.sp.paramax.com"?  Isn't there an extra email in there
somewhere?
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5979 Memory Manager for '030?
12/16/93 20:33 15/ Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
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Okay, I have a question for all you Imagineers out there.  Is there a
virtual memory manager for the Amiga, preferably shareware, that will
run on an '030 based system, and if so, where can I find it?  I am
trying to do a somewhat complex animation, but 3 megs just don't cut
it.

Thanx all...
--
     Gordon Schumacher

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/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5980 Virtual Memory...
12/17/93 01:20 31/ [e-mail] (Stephen J.Gowdy)
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Hi All,
        I was wondering how good that PD VMM40 was, but from the previous mails
it sounds quite good. In the past I tried to get the old VMem program working
but without any luck.
        I wanted to render the NCC1701D object by Carman Rizzo (sorry if I've
spelt your name wrong!) but I have only 6 Meg. So I eventually bought Gigamem.
This is a commercial program and costs around #50 in the UK. It is quite good
and I don't believe it has caused me any problems. It works on any machine with
an MMU.
        You need to set a minimum amount for it to allocate as virtual memory
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for any task you wish to use it. The default is 10000 bytes, but to render the
Enterprise I had to take this down to 10 (as low as it goes) for it to complete
it. I guess Imagine must grab lots of little bits of memory. The funny thing is
if it runs out of Fast Mem but there still it Vmem which won't be allocated to
it because it is asking for small bits it still renders but misses out bits of
the objects. Wierd effects, man!
        With gigamem you can either use an entire partition or a file on a
AmigaDOS partition.

                                Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Command:

                                                        Stephen.

****************************************************************************
*Stephen J Gowdy                *A4000/040* High Energy Physics Group,     *
*Bitnet: GOWDY AT GWIA          *120 MB HD* Dept Of Physics & Astronomy,   *
*DecNet: 20075::GOWDY           *6MEG RAM!* University of Glasgow.         *
*InterNet: [e-mail]*It moves!* Tel: [phone] E:5894 *
****************************************************************************

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5981 GigaMem and Imagine
12/17/93 00:31 29/ <[e-mail]>
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Hi !

As we are talking about Virtual memory and as I have the chance to own Gigamem
(Version 3.0, works with '030 and '040), does anybody know what is the best
setting ?

I've got 26MB RAM (Yes, I know, it's a lot) and as much as disk that I want (I
created a 20MB file to extend my memory to about 40MB for Imagine in some
renderings). Has anybody experienced how much buffer I should reserve for swap
(I don't know exactly what it is, but I think it the memory amount reserved to
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allow swapping from/to disk).
This question applies not only to Gigamem, but to all Virtual Memory programs.

Thank you

Robin

--
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
Command:
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer                Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                       Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                       Fax :  [phone]




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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5982 RE: GigaMem and Imagine
12/17/93 02:39 2/ [e-mail] (Stephen J.Gowdy)
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If you use a file it tells you in the manual to set the buffer to zero. It
just uses the AMigaDOS device buffers for the partition.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5983 Textures
12/16/93 22:37 53/ [e-mail]
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Ok folks, here's some more texture play for you guys.

Imagine 2.9's DETHSTAR texture leaves much to be desired for my tastes.  Here's
a solution I came up with....use the RADWIND,TUBEWIND,RECTWIND
textures to create multicolored spaceship panels:

- Add a primitive sphere with it's default values.
- Apply the RADWIND texture
- Make these adjustments to the texture variables:
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Column One     Two
      ____    ____
       1       210       *These params will gill give you panels that are
       3       210        randomly colored from the two color ranges defined
      60       210        in column two.
       0       190       *Play around with some of the variables to get the
       1       190        affect right for you.
       0       190
       0        -1
       0         0
Command:
--------------------------------------------

BARK, MOUNTAIN RIVULETS, GRANITE, MARBLE EFFECTS
      -Use the WRINKLE texture for all these and more!

- Add default cylinder and CLOSE the TOP
- Select the top edges of the cylinder and MAKE SHARP
- Apply the WRINKLE texture and render.
    This will look like bark around the cylinder....play with the noise
    functions to adjust the look of the bark.
Command:

Now make these changes to the Texture:

Column One     Two
       ___     ___
       0.5     150      * This will look like the sides of a mountain around
       0.5     150        the Cylinder.  On the top of the cylinder it will
      10.0     150        look like granite.
       1.0      20      * When applied to organic object the vertical faces
       0.5      50        will have the rivulets, the horizontal faces will
Command:
       0.0      20        be granite-like.
       0.0       0
       1.0       0      * Try changing the first three variables in Column
                          one to 10,10,1 respectively.  The resulting look
                          will make the cylinder look like a core sample
                          around the cylinder, while the top of the cylinder
                          will have a marble-like quality.
---------------------------------------------
  Hope these tips were usefull, play around with the params to further tweak
these two textures...you'd be surprised what can be done.
Command:

-GreG

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5984 Candy apple
12/17/93 11:05 15/ [e-mail]
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Here's something that I found very usefull and use very often.

The new CNDAPPLE texture is GREAT for giving the appearance of a metalic
finish.  Take any mechanical object, plane, ship, gear, car, tank, robot, etc.
and apply the Candy Apple texture to the main group axis and click on Apply to
Group in the texture dialogue box.   It's that simple.
  I use it on an Exoskeletal armored suit.  The suit's color is pure white.
All RGB guns are set to 255 and I apply this texture.  The result is a
stainless steel finish.
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  This trick is great when you need that metallic look but don't need any
reflections.  It saves a great deal of time rendering to boot.

GreG

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5985 2.9 bugs coming out of the woodwork!
12/17/93 14:27 18/ [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
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Here's one for you, for some reason, you can not have the subgroup
        only button clicked on for textures.  It renders as if you hadn't
        assigned any texture at all!  This is bad.  What is worse is you
        can no longer apply maps on top of one another, at least the
        non-color kind.  I'm building a set of hard-core military/sci-fi
        sets, and I wanted to have this stair case with yellow and black
        safety stripes over top of these raised metal bumpmaps.  Well,
        surprise surprise, it wouldn't work.
Bear in mind I have not had time to do very much with it yet so I
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        may be ignorant about the new way of doing things, but if
        anyone out there can point me in the right direction, I'd
        be most appreciative
steveZ                 Rhythm & Hues, Inc.
celia![e-mail]
"That's not Art Linkletter, that's Mickey Mouse!"
                        -Art Linkletter, Disneyland opening day

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5986 Spaceship Object Availiable for Download
12/18/93 01:12 39/ [e-mail] (Daniel T. Edwards)
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Available for download on WuArchive and AmiNet:

T-17SpaceFighter

An Imagine 2.9 object.  It is one of the fighters from the Star Wars
series.  I'm certain you will not recognise it.  I never heard of it until
I saw it in a book.  It uses some 2.9 textures and  several brushmaps.  The
brushmaps are, of course, included. This is probably my very best object.
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It'l keep getting better as I add things to it.  When 3.0 comes out, I'm
going to add a "landing gear out" state.  It should be possible with 2.9,
but I hear that states is still quite buggy.


On wuarchive.wustl.edu it is in:
systems/amiga/boing/incoming/imagine
The filenames are:
T-17.SpcFtr.For2.9.lha  \__ Be very specific about these filenames.  The
T-17.V2.9readme         /   others in the directory are obsolete or bad.
Command:


On Aminet it is in the new directory and currently unavailable.
It will probably end up in: aminet/gfx/3d/3dobj or whatever.
The filenames there are: T-17.V2.9.readme
                         T-17.v2.9.lha

Please E-mail me if you have any fun with this...

Still using Imagine 2.9 on a 700 x 462 screen without special hardware.
Command:
E-mail me for more info.
 ____________________________________________________________
/                                                            \
| Amiga 2000                James R. Walker                  |
| 2MB Chip             [e-mail]           |
| 18MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /                                              |
| 68040 33Mhz |Heinlein,Rand,Clarke,Adams,Asimov,Niven,Worley|
\____________________________________________________________/
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5987 subscribe
12/18/93 08:58 3/ Christopher Barger <[e-mail]>
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5988 PAL VCR
12/19/93 07:18 15/ [e-mail] (Krunoslav Kedmenec)
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                Hi to all Imagine users!

        One question for Amiga users in Europe (or any PAL country).
I need some video recorder that can record in single frame mode.It can
be in any video system (S-VHS, Hi8,...) for PAL. Only limit is price
( not over 10.000 DEM, 6.000 $, 4.000 #, ...).
        I am also interested in some quality PAL genlock for S-VHS.

        If anyone knows any model (and price) please reply.
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                                                Krunoslav Kedmenec
                                                [e-mail]

                Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5989 Revelation 3D
12/19/93 09:05 10/ [e-mail]
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I just saw a blurb in the Jan. Amiga World, page 12 concerning Revelation 3D.
What impressed me was the fact that it supports network-distributed
rendering (even on the serial port! (?)).  Has anyone heard any more about
this product?  Perhaps there was discussion about it on comp.sys.amiga.graphics
or something?

PJ
Kinetic Dreams

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5990 Anim cards
12/19/93 15:07 44/ [e-mail]
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Ho ho ho IMLs, merry Christmas, and happy Hanuka! (yeah, a bit late, but
still)

On  my way to a multi-million dollar computer animation business, and right
before I sign the Jurassic Park II (Jurassic Ocean) contract with Steven, I
need to get a real-time 24bit high-res animation player.

I browsed through recent magazines, and came up with the following
options:
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DPS - PAR
OpalVision 2.0
Digital Broadcaster 16/32
Vlab Motion

I'm  seeking  hands-on information on these boards or any other boards that
fit  the  criteria from real-life users, concerning primarily the animation
playback.  Also, if anyone uses a 'display enhancer' like the EGS-Spectrum,
Merlin etc.  for similar animation playback, please respond.
Command:

Features I'd like to have:

feature                                          a must?

* __PAL__                                          YES
* Clear display - no mpeg/jpeg artifacts           YES
* 50 fps, no matter how complex the animation is   YES
* Composite, Y/C, component output                 NO
* Real-time video capture                          NO
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* Non-linear editing tools                              NO
* Arexx support                                    NO
* Non-dedicated hard disk                          NO
* Zorro II/III compatibility                       YES
* 'Buy a card, get a Porsche' coupon               YES

If you could refer in your answers to those features or add other features,
I'll  be  very  happy.   Responses  may go here or directly to me, and I'll
compile it and send it to the list.

Command:
Thanx!

Nir Hermoni
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5991 Re: Revelation 3D
12/19/93 20:25 31/ "Steve J. Lombardi" <[e-mail]>
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>
>
> I just saw a blurb in the Jan. Amiga World, page 12 concerning Revelation 3D.
> What impressed me was the fact that it supports network-distributed
> rendering (even on the serial port! (?)).  Has anyone heard any more about
> this product?  Perhaps there was discussion about it on comp.sys.amiga.graphics
> or something?
>
> PJ
> Kinetic Dreams
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>

There were a number of debates on C.S.A.G. relating to revelation. (most
centered on the fact that it was to ship with a donggle, however the
makers have removed the dongle and instead opted to distribute on CD-rom)

An extensive feature list was posted. I don't have it handy, but It generally
listed all of the features of imagine 2.0 with a helping of assorted features
from other programs. It sounds proimising. I esspecially like the promised
real time color shading in the editors. Of course as far as I'm
Command:
concerned it's all vapor until it can be purchased (which may be right now!)
It certainly did sound promising.

I had also heard a RUMOR (repeat RUMOR) that this is the 3D package that
progressive peripherals was handling. The rumor stated that they purchsed
the code and greatly enhanced it. If anyone has more info on this I'd like
to here it.

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
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[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5992 UNSUBSCRIBE: [e-mail]
12/20/93 02:02 4/ Lorenzo Buonomo <[e-mail]>
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Merry Christmas!
Lorenzo Buonomo
UNSUBSCRIBE: [e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5993 Trying to illuminate my ceiling
12/20/93 08:04 17/ [e-mail]
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I'm trying to render a room and I can't get Imagine to illuminate my
ceiling!

As a test case I created a simple box (actually a 4-sided TUBE primative)
and stuck a light and the camera inside of it.  Now the box is all one object
so the walls, floor and ceiling all have the same attributes but Imagine
seems to want to treat the ceiling as the "bottom-of-the-top" and render
it shaded... I get white walls and a white floor but a grey ceiling, even If
I render a spot lamp pointed at the ceiling I get a light grey spot.  If I
point the light at the intersection of a wall and the ceiling, the portion
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of the spot on the wall it white but the portion of the spot on the ceiling
is grey.

Anybody got some ideas?

Don DeCosta
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5994 Understanding Imagine (the book, not the concept!)
12/20/93 14:06 34/ Rob Freundlich <[e-mail]>
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I've been using Imagine 2.0 for about 3 months now.  I've got the basics, but
mothing more.  Everyone on the list is talking about Steve Worley's
"Understanding Imagine", so I thought I'd go get a copy.  Went to my dealer
this weekend.  IT'S OUT OF PRINT!!!!!!  AAAAAIIIIIGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!

So, two questions:

1. Anyone want to part with theirs?  I'll pay good money for it!

2. If (1) fails, anyone want to copy theirs?  Now, before all you anti-pirate
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types get in a dander, let me say I WOULD PAY FOR IT IF IT WERE AVAILABLE!!!!!
Barring that, I'm willing to pay Worley his royalty on the copy (does he read
this list?  If so, Steve, what do you think?  I won't do this without your
permission as the author).

All the features of 2.9 sound great, but if I can't figure out 2.0, I don't
know if it's worth the upgrade price.  I am not a professional cga, nor do I
plan to do anything other than make neat pictures and animations for personal
pleasure.  So I don't actually _need_ Imagine.  Or a complete understanding of
it.  However, it's nice to use this wonderful machine for something fun but not
Command:
necessary.  So I'd like to find the book and use it before deciding whether or
not to upgrade.

+---------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
|Rob Freundlich                         |#define SYSOP GOD                   |
|IDX Systems Corporation                |#define REALITY NULL                |
|[e-mail]     <- You Are Here |                                    |
|[e-mail]                 |Diseased Programmers do it in MUMPS!|
+---------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
|  "Some folks you don't have to satirize - ya just quote 'em" - Tom Paxton  |
Command:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|#include <stdio.h> void main() {printf("My opinions, not my employer's\n");}|
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5995 LightWave Pro magazine
12/20/93 14:42 17/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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I don't recall which list this question originated from (I think it was the
Imagine list) but I have received dozens of requests for subscription
info on LightWave Pro magazine for areas outside North America. To the best
of my knowledge (I just got off the phone with the chief editor), it is not
currently available outside this continent primarily due to shipping cost
issues. They are concerned that they don't have enough exposure in Europe
to make it financially viable. I did mention to him that I have been getting
many requests and he is going to bring it up with the Publisher (Avid
Publications). If you would like to see this happen, you can email Avid at:
[e-mail]
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%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5996 Re: Rockets Red Flare...
12/20/93 17:06 33/ [e-mail]
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     >>>> Human vision also exhibits motion blur.

     >> - I have a problem with this one. Isn't motion blur due to discrete
     sampling? i.e. frames of film? frames of video? Maybe if you can show
     me that the optic nerve samples the incoming light, I'll buy this
     argument.


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     No, motion blur is not the result of changing frames over time. It is
     the result of changes that happen within the time limit of a single
     frame. (Well, ok, there are other ways, too.)  Note that you can see
     motion blur in a still photo.

     Sampling happens in the eye, not the optic nerve. But it is sampling.
     I don't know what else would you would call it.

     The blur happens because images have a duration. Focus on a high
     contrast item and shut you eyes. There's a bit of afterimage, no? The
Command:
     perception of the thing doesn't disappear the same instant that the
     light from the thing does. If the images changes over time, there will
     be afterimages along with the current images: thus, blur. It's not
     discrete or digital, but it's still there.

     If you still don't believe human vision has motion blur, here's an
     experiment you can try: wave your hand in front of your face. Just to
     be sure, try it outside in sunlight, so you know there aren't any
     artifacts from 60 Hz lighting.

Command:

     Marshall

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5997 Re: Rockets Red Flare...
12/20/93 20:34 34/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 20 Dec 1993 [e-mail] wrote:

>
>
>      >>>> Human vision also exhibits motion blur.
>
>      >> - I have a problem with this one. Isn't motion blur due to discrete
>      sampling? i.e. frames of film? frames of video? Maybe if you can show
>      me that the optic nerve samples the incoming light, I'll buy this
>      argument.
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>
>
>      No, motion blur is not the result of changing frames over time. It is
>      the result of changes that happen within the time limit of a single
>      frame. (Well, ok, there are other ways, too.)  Note that you can see
>      motion blur in a still photo.

        You get the idea...

        One more thing to try:
Command:

        Video used in brightly lit areas sometimes has NO motion blur.
I've seen this in a few Sprite ads where people were playing baseball.
The frames are like a series of still pictures shot at a very fast shutter
speed.  You can tell something is wrong even if you can't trace it to
motion blur right away.

        Cyrus J. Kalbrener

                Digital_Cel
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Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5998 RE: Rockets Red Flare...
12/21/93 02:11 14/ "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
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Cyrus J Kalbrener on Tue, Dec 21, 1993 6:16 am wrote:

>       Video used in brightly lit areas sometimes has NO motion blur.
>I've seen this in a few Sprite ads where people were playing baseball.
>The frames are like a series of still pictures shot at a very fast shutter
>speed.  You can tell something is wrong even if you can't trace it to
>motion blur right away.

Producers of televised athletics coverage in particular seem to go for high
shutter speeds, presumably so that in action replay, the athletes don't look
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like blurs on the screen as they whiz past.  IMHO it makes for an artificially
crisp and jerky style of animation...but I suppose it serves its purpose.

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5999 Re: Rockets Red Flare...
12/21/93 07:30 25/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|     If you still don't believe human vision has motion blur, here's an
|     experiment you can try: wave your hand in front of your face. Just to
|     be sure, try it outside in sunlight, so you know there aren't any
|     artifacts from 60 Hz lighting.

        Of course the human eye exhibits motion blur.  That's why videographers,
        cinematographers, animators, and photographers all try to emulate
        it with their particular medium.  It is my understanding that
        because of the "persistence of vision" in the human eye, fast moving
        images tend to blur together.  That is the basis for which moving
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        pictures are created.  Your watching a sequence of still images.
        Yet they appear to be moving due to the mechanism of the eye.  It
        is a controlled motion blur.  That is why slower film and video
        rates dont produce smooth motion.

        Dale


        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers
Command:

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6000 errors in anim makin
12/21/93 07:57 22/ [e-mail]
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Hello Imaginauts;
        I have been having trouble making my anims, The rendered frames
Look great. I cannot play the regular imagine anims so I use the anim option
and play them back with vt.
        Two things have happened one is that on building the last anim it
crashes my machine with an unrecoverable error. the other thing is that it
gets what looks like large scratches in the dithered surfaces that blink
off and on about every other frame. My great gold frame comes out looking
like (%^$&$$^) where the light dithers away into gold.

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        Oh one other thing when you have an object with a bad face or point
count, and get the requester over and over and over, its like that stupid
rabbit with those batteries it just never quits. not a bad idea to check
your objects but c'mon.

        I also noticed that the preferance setting don't take some of the time
to be specific try adjusting your default quickrender background color with
the sliders. also edle does not change unless you save exit imagine and come
back in.

Command:
                                                Thanks
                                                 Lesk
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6001 Now I Understand Imagine :-)
12/21/93 08:24 14/ Rob Freundlich <[e-mail]>
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Thanks to all who responded to my request.  I called System Eyes in Nashua, NH,
and as of this afternoon, my copy will be on its way.

+---------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
|Rob Freundlich                         |#define SYSOP GOD                   |
|IDX Systems Corporation                |#define REALITY NULL                |
|[e-mail]     <- You Are Here |                                    |
|[e-mail]                 |Diseased Programmers do it in MUMPS!|
+---------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
|  "Some folks you don't have to satirize - ya just quote 'em" - Tom Paxton  |
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|#include <stdio.h> void main() {printf("My opinions, not my employer's\n");}|
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6002 RE: Rockets Red Flare...
12/21/93 11:28 18/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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On 21 Dec 1993, Oxley David wrote:

> Cyrus J Kalbrener on Tue, Dec 21, 1993 6:16 am wrote:
>
> >     Video used in brightly lit areas sometimes has NO motion blur.
>
> Producers of televised athletics coverage in particular seem to go for high
> shutter speeds, presumably so that in action replay, the athletes don't look
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> like blurs on the screen as they whiz past.  IMHO it makes for an artificially
> crisp and jerky style of animation...but I suppose it serves its purpose.
>
> Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>

        My point exactly.


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6003 Re: Trying to illuminate my ceiling
12/21/93 09:50 12/ [e-mail]
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>
> I'm trying to render a room and I can't get Imagine to illuminate my
> ceiling!
>
        I had the same problem.  My solution was to use a paint program
to do a gradient fill of my all-black ceiling.  I'd bet ImageFX or
ImageMaster could also do a region flood-fill with a "lighten" effect.
The solution I didn't try because my room was too complex to bother
with, is to delete the ceiling polygons and replace them with a plane.
You might have to set the ceiling's attributes to "bright".
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-John
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6004 PAR question
12/21/93 10:55 32/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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        Greetings and Happy Holidays,

        the video engineer in our video services department told me that
        when I create animations I should put about 45 seconds of color
        bars on the front of the tape so that the engineers can adjust
        their equipment to my colors.

        I noticed that the PAR comes with a "test patterns" directory and
        there a number of files in it.  One file says it has color bars.
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        They are not IFF files.  I tried to view them and received an error
        message.  I don't want to have to create a color bar test screen if
        I don't have to.  I would rather just display the image through the
        PAR for about 45s and then play my animation.  The manual and
        README files don't seem to talk about them (unless I missed it
        while I was reading).

        What exactly are these files?  How do I use them?

        BTW My Imagine animation looked fantastic played over the studio
Command:
        monitor.  The engineer was very impressed with the output.

        Dale


        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
Command:
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6005 RE: Rockets red flare
12/21/93 11:29 18/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 20 Dec 1993, Daniel T. Edwards wrote:
> Did I lose anyone?
> How does this relate to Imagine?
> I want motion blur and lens flare.  I just don't have a good
> (read confusing) argument for lens flare... yet.

        O.K., Take a bright flashlight, go into a dark closet, turn the
flashlight on, and shine it in your face.  If anyone can tell me that you
only see a glowing filament (and can still see the rest of the room behind
the light), I will concede(sp) that lense flare is unrealistic.
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        Cyrus J. Kalbrener

                Digital_Cel




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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6006 textures index
12/21/93 02:44 62/ [e-mail]
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     If you've printed out the list of texture descriptions for 2.9,
     then you've probably been searching through 30+ pages looking for
     the one you need (I have).  Here's a list sorted alphabetically
     by filename to use as an index.  Fill in the page number for
     your printout.  Please post corrections here.

     Ed

c=color r=reflect f=filter b=bump

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Filename  Type      Page

Agate     c
Antique   crf(+alt)
BathTile  cb
BumpNoiz  b
CndyAppl  c
ColrNoiz  crf
Confetti  crf
CoolFir   crf
Command:
Crumpled  crb
DethStar  crfb
DinoSkin  cb
Easy Wood c
FilNoiz2  f
FireBall  crf
Gas Giant cf
HrdStrip  crf
Iris      c
Leather   b
Command:
LensFlar  f
Metals    crb
MntnTop   crf
Monster   cb
Mosaic    crfb
Pebbled   crb
Peened    crb
Plaid     c
RadCheks  crfb
Rainbow   c
Command:
RdDthStr  crfb
RectChex  crfb
RectWind  crf
RedWing   crf
RefNoiz2  r
Scratch   crb
SftStrip  crf
Shingles  b
Splotch   c
SprlChex  crfb
Command:
StainGls  cfb
Statue    cb
Transpar  f
TriChex   crfb
TriTile   cb
TubeWind  crf
Venetian  b
Weave     crfb
Worm Vein crfb
Wrinkle   crb
Command:
Z Buffer  c
Zooloo    cb
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6007 Re: My recent trip
12/21/93 15:21 18/ [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
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>>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew P Vogel <[e-mail]> writes:

Andrew> We met in Menlo Park in a fantastic Chinese restaurant (can't
Andrew> remeber the name) and we had the chance to talk a lot about
Andrew> the state of things, and Steve even provided me with a
Andrew> features-list of some new stuff from Apex Software! Lots of
Andrew> goodies coming from them. If Steve gives me permission, I will
Andrew> post what I remember from our conversation. Steve?

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        I'm afraid that Steve has just taken off to visit his family
for Christmas, and he won't be back until about the 28th or 1st of the
year.  Sorry I didn't get to meet you too, Andrew... Charles and I are
quite remote from Steve.

[ My opinion regarding question sent only to Andrew. ]

                                                        -- Glenn
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6008 IFF files to slide woes
12/21/93 13:10 40/ [e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)
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I was hoping to get some images that I rendered in Imagine
done up on slides.  But things seem to have gotten very
expensive.

Does anyone on the list have any experience with getting
their artwork outputted to slides?

One of the problems I have is memory.  I generated a 2000 x 2000
24 bit IFF in Imagine but then I could not read it in with
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ADPro to convert it to a JPEG file.  ADPro wants 16,004,000 bytes
of memory to hold a raw image.  I only have a 12 M fast and 2 M
chip in my 3000.  Incidentally, the actually IFF is 1,773,294
bytes in size.

The guy at the image bureau I talked to said ideally they would
like the file as PCX or Targa file.  But they would have to scale
it up to the proper resolution; he said it would be 15 minutes
of work at $100 Canadian an hour.  The advertisement I saw
said $5 - $8 Canadian per slide ( but it did not say what the
Command:
criteria was).  I was hoping to get quite a few slides done up
time permitting but the costs when added up are too much for
me.

I am prepared to accept that this stuff is not altogether cheap
but I would like to know better what goes and how I would
ideally have slide ready files to take to image bureau.

The other problem is I would need the images by next Tuesday;
otherwise, I would try one the places I saw advertising they
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handle amiga files by mail to make slides.  There are a few places
in with ads in AmigaWorld.  Has anyone dealt with any of these
places and how much did it all end up costing?  These places
advertise that they handle IFF-24's amongst other file formats.

What have I learned here?  I should have been making some calls
before even trying to do any renders in the first place.

PS.  I was surprised how quickly the gas giant texture in Imagine
2.9 renders.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6009 re:slides
12/21/93 15:24 13/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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Manjit Bedi was looking to get slides from Imagine-
i have successfully gotten slides of my Lightwave images, which run
5-7 megs, by transferring the IFFs to Photoshop 2.51, which reads 24 bit
IFFS, then saving out to any format the bureau requires. I use Amax to
transfer from Amiga to Mac syquest.
Most service bureaus i have used have access to photoshop/mac or pc, and ther
even use photoshop to send to the slide recorder...
hope this helps-
p.s. i too have 16 megs and was quite disappointed that ADpro couldn't read the files-
i hear ImageFX has virtual memory-this should be able to load bigger images.
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kevin
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6010 My recent trip
12/21/93 13:54 12/ "Andrew P. Vogel" <[e-mail]>
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Well, this past weekend, I was in San Francisco California. While I was out
there, I had the chance to meet up with Steve Worley for lunch.

We met in Menlo Park in a fantastic Chinese restaurant (can't remeber the name)
and we had the chance to talk a lot about the state of things, and Steve even
provided me with a features-list of some new stuff from Apex Software! Lots
of goodies coming from them. If Steve gives me permission, I will post what
I remember from our conversation. Steve?

All in all, the entire trip was very nice and relaxing, and it was certainly
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nice to put a face to the name and voice of Steve Worley!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6011 IFF files to slide woes
12/21/93 16:58 34/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> One of the problems I have is memory.  I generated a 2000 x 2000
> 24 bit IFF in Imagine but then I could not read it in with
> ADPro to convert it to a JPEG file.  ADPro wants 16,004,000 bytes

Shoulda bought ImageFX instead :-)  Its got built-in virtual memory.
I've used this to manipulate some *huge* files.

But failing that you have a couple of choices:

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  - get GigaMem or one of the other virtual mem programs to let you
    effectively get more memory for ADPro.  This should be cheap.

  - If you have an 040 system you can probably use the free VMM40
    program from aminet.  Right now this is limited to 32 Mb, but
    perhaps that will be enough.  (The author says he will remove that
    limit soon).

  - Find a friend who has either more RAM, or ImageFX.

Command:
> like the file as PCX or Targa file.  But they would have to scale
> it up to the proper resolution; he said it would be 15 minutes
> of work at $100 Canadian an hour.  The advertisement I saw

Might as well do this yourself.  If you can find someone nearby with
ImageFX you should be able to scale to any size file you want, in
addition to writing Targa or just about any other format they can think
of.

(I'm surprised the shop doesn't accept IFF images though.  IFF has been
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around longer than things like GIF, and it seems like most modern image
processing software will read just about any format).

  - steve
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6012 Re: slides
12/22/93 11:44 15/ Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
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> i hear ImageFX has virtual memory-this should be able to load bigger images.

Yes, ImageFX is the way to go on this one - for the most part, I find
that I prefer it anyway.  It should be able to load the image... don't
expect to be able to get a decent screen image of it 'tho...  *that*
takes lots of real memory.  You'll just get a grayscale or dithered 16-
color version.
--
     Gordon Schumacher

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/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6013 Brilliance IFFs don't load as brushmaps
12/22/93 15:22 22/ Rob Freundlich <[e-mail]>
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My copy of UI just came in (wow.  Overnight service during Xmas week.  System
Eyes is _impressive_!) and it'sgot me wanting to play with brushmaps.  So I go
into Brilliance (yes, I'm on a 4000) and create a brush.  Save it to disk.  Go
into Imagine, create a 1x1 plane and map the brush to it.  Now when I try to
Quickrender, Imagine tells me it can't load the brush.

This was mentioned on csa.graphics (I think) and someone said to edit out the
ANN0 hunk of the Brush IFF file, but that's not working for me (or I'm editing
it out wrong).  Has anyone had success using Brilliance and Imagine?  I'd hate
to go back to DPaint ...
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+---------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
|Rob Freundlich                         |#define SYSOP GOD                   |
|IDX Systems Corporation                |#define REALITY NULL                |
|[e-mail]     <- You Are Here |                                    |
|[e-mail]                 |Diseased Programmers do it in MUMPS!|
+---------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
|  "Some folks you don't have to satirize - ya just quote 'em" - Tom Paxton  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|#include <stdio.h> void main() {printf("My opinions, not my employer's\n");}|
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6014 Re: IFF files to slide woes
12/22/93 20:01 14/ Johan Andersson <[e-mail]>
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Hello.

I printed out a few pictures last week, using a service buroue in sweden

it costed me 10 dollars/picture and they accepted jpeg, iff, pcx, tiff etc...

For a A4 - copy (21*29 cm) you'll have an image size of 2000*3000.


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Cee ya

        / Johan
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6015 Re: Brilliance IFFs don't load as brushmaps
12/22/93 20:05 7/ Johan Andersson <[e-mail]>
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Hi.

Imagine 2.0 can not use AGA - pictures

        / Johan

ps. I don't know if v2.9 can ds.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6016 Re: Brilliance IFFs don't load as brushmaps
12/22/93 20:34 4/ Tim Salazar <[e-mail]>
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You can always load the Brill IFF into the good ol' standby ADPro and resave
as an IFF.

Tim Salazar  [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6017 Re: Imagine-PC!?!
12/22/93 21:32 2/ [e-mail]
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Wow!  Imagine-PC.  I didn't know it was available...  Haven't seen it.   What
does it list for, and where can I find it?
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6018 Imagine to Real 3D Upgrade offer
12/23/93 05:04 10/ [e-mail]
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Does anyone know the terms of the Imagine to Real 3D upgrade offer? How
much does the upgrade cost? How do you get the upgrade? How long is the
offer good for,etc? I saw Real 3D demoed at my usergroup meeting and was
really impressed.

                                   Thanks

                                  Scott Corley

[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6019 AGA IFF conversion
12/23/93 06:40 14/ Rob Freundlich <[e-mail]>
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OK, so Imagine 2.0 doesn't understand AGA IFFs  A couple of people have
suggested ADPro to convert to a normal IFF.  Unfortunately, I don't own AdPro
or any other conversion program.

1. Are there any PD programs that will do this?

2. What's the difference between AGA IFF and just plain IFF?  I've got the 2.0
RKM sitting in front of me, so I could probably write a converter if the
differences aren't too complicated.

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3. Is it just a matter of screen modes and color resolution?  Maybe I can make
a non-AGA screenmode picture with a non-AGA color resolution?

Rob
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6020 Mouse lock bug!
12/23/93 08:16 23/ [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)
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        I'm new to this mailing list so, if you're already aware of this problem
sorry to be redundant. If you are aware of this problem and know how to get
out of it please let me know.
        When holding down the shift key to make multiple selections I have
found that if I go up to the menu bar i.e. the last selection being
incorrect so, I go up to do an "Undo", the mouse locks on the menu bar and
I have to reboot the system to regain control losing of course anything
that I have in work in the process. Even if I try the using the keyboard to
at least get me out of Imagine to avoid rebooting; using "a Q", I receive a
requester asking me if I want to quit! Unfortunately, this requester only
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responds to mouse input!! Has anyone else experienced this problem. I have
a lot of PD programs enhancing my system which possibly could be causing
this glitch.
                                Merry Christmas,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

Command:
13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6021 Re: Brilliance IFFs don't load as brushmaps
12/23/93 08:24 13/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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On Thu, 23 Dec 1993, Johan Andersson wrote:

> Hi.
>
> Imagine 2.0 can not use AGA - pictures
>
>       / Johan
>
> ps. I don't know if v2.9 can ds.

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        Imagine can't handle 256 color pix (haven't tried it on 2.9).


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6022 Imagine 2.9 or V3.0
12/22/93 13:37 15/ @imp.ch:[e-mail] (Andreas Gutzwiller)
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I ordered the upgrade from Impulse to version 3.0. I got only V 2.9 with a
letter that V 3.0 comes later. Do anybody have V3.0?



              ^^
     xxxx     xxx
   xxxxxxxx xxxOxxx  _       Andreas Gutzwiller
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 /xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx       FIDO:  2:301/707.7
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/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx       AmigaNet: 39:110/101.7
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/       AmiNet: 44:8010/101.7
   xxxxxxxxxxx    xx     InterNet: [e-mail]
    xxx   xxx
    xxx   xxx
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6023 Re: Brilliance IFFs don't load as brushmaps
12/24/93 06:13 33/ [e-mail] (Graeme Mc Donough)
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>On Thu, 23 Dec 1993, Johan Andersson wrote:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Imagine 2.0 can not use AGA - pictures
>>
>>       / Johan
>>
>> ps. I don't know if v2.9 can ds.
>
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>        Imagine can't handle 256 color pix (haven't tried it on 2.9).


If you read the notes you should have with your 2.9 you
will read that the Imagine people request that you do not try to use AGA.
the AGA selection is there in imagine, but they say not to use it yet..




Command:
/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-SUN
Graeme Mc Donough,
INTERNET: [e-mail]  (postmaster)
                                                                        ///
Monash University                                                      ///
Dpt of Earth Sciences                                                 ///
Clayton, Melbourne                                                \\\///
Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3168                                           \XX/
PHONE: [phone]
/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-TWIRL
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6024 Re: AGA IFF conversion
12/23/93 21:47 12/ Tim Salazar <[e-mail]>
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Rob,

A PD converter is Rend24. Its in the gfx section of aminet.

AGA is a version of Ham but you need the correct chipset (AGA) in order to
view it. As far as Imagine not accepting it that is internal. I don't know
about that.

Also I thought that you could save Brilliance in both AGA and IFF. Isn't
True 24 running in the background?
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Tim
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6025 AGA pictures!!!!
12/24/93 09:49 10/ Erdem ERTAN <[e-mail]>
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    Hello to all guys!
    Why dont all of you use a converter that converts aga pictures to
24-bit pictures..I think Image FX and ADPro can do it

                   merry christmas!!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Erdem ERTAN    INTERNET:[e-mail]
                    _silly_ on irc
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6026 No mail
12/23/93 04:51 4/ ckcs![e-mail]
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Just wanted to leave a message to see if it would get thru.  Over the
past few days I have not recieved many messages from the list, and was
wondering if something was wrong.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6027 Re: AGA IFF conversion   (Msgnum: 1082658)
12/24/93 10:08 19/ Rob Freundlich <[e-mail]>
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From:   IDX::SMTP%"[e-mail]" 24-DEC-1993 02:25:22.26
To:     MOTHER::RSF
CC:
Subj:   Re: AGA IFF conversion   (Msgnum: 1082658)

>Rob,

>A PD converter is Rend24. Its in the gfx section of aminet.

Ergh.  The version I've got crashes me.  I'll dl the newest ...
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>Also I thought that you could save Brilliance in both AGA and IFF. Isn't
>True 24 running in the background?

I can't find an option for save format.  Using True Brilliance will save HAM or
IFF, but I'm using straight Brilliance, no HAM.  What's "True 24"?

Rob

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6028 Imagine 2.9 and Grow effect
12/26/93 05:30 25/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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Ok. I'm pissed off now! I understand that there are quite a few bugs in
what is essentially a Beta release, but I hate it when they screw up what
used to work (more or less). i.e. the Grow F/X. Has anyone tried it in
2.9 ?
Well, I have and it doesn't seem to work. After spending quite a while
designing a path I thought I'd set up the growth sequence. I did
everything the same as in 2.0 (nothing  in the docs. to indicate that
anything has been changed) and all of a sudden Imagine tells me that the
path object is wrong. Ok, I made sure that I checked how I grouped it -
i.e. the path being the parent. Everything was right!
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Ok, I thought... No problem I'll just do it in 2.0. Sorry, Impulse have
changed something with the paths as 2.0 won't recognize it as a path -
you only get an axis... Real major bummer! I spent an hour or so on this
and it has all gone down the drain! Looking at the sizes of the effects,
it seems that the 2.9 versions are completely the same as 2.0 versions.
Some just do not work!
If anyone gets Grow to work, let me know how you did it since something
has definitely changed!


Command:

Oh well, back to 2.0...

Nik.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6029 Mirrors
12/27/93 06:42 9/ [e-mail]
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Hello all;
        I tried making a mirror in 2.9 and it would reflect the ground
and sky but nothing else. I tried a tree and a logo placed everywhere
around it I even added a chrome sphere it to only reflected the ground
and sky no matter where I placed all my other stuff.
Any Ideas?

                                        Thanks
                                         Lesk
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6030 Re[2]: Brilliance IFFs don't load as brushmaps
12/27/93 08:07 9/ [e-mail]
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You can always load the Brill IFF into the good ol' standby ADPro and resave
as an IFF.

Tim Salazar  [e-mail]

************************

     Or, why not just save it as 24 bit from brilliance and load it in
     imagine in this format?
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6031 More on IFF to slides
12/27/93 14:24 87/ [e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)
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Firslty, I would like to thank all the people who replied to my
mail about getting slides made up.

To summarize:


   - the dimesions of the render should be

       2048 x 1368 (approximately)
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       or

       1536 x 1024

   - the aspect ratio should be 1 for X and 1 for Y but one
     person said it should be ratio of the the above
     dimensions


Command:
But this much more than I knew to begin with  ;-)

I am going to hold off on getting some slides done for the
time being.  I am wondering about getting an external
high density floppy for my A3000 so I might be able to
transport images more conveniently.  I cannot justify
buying a sysquest (sp?) at the moment.

Quite a few people mentioned using ImageFX over ADPro since it
has virtual memory built in. This is with regards to converting
Command:
the IFF-24 to something like a targa file. And of course there
is a Gigamem.

I have another question: does Imagine render the entire image in
memory or portions at a time and then writes the parts of the image
to disk? It seems funny that I generate a image with Imagine larger
than ADPRO can read in into RAW memory.

I should mention that the PC version of Imagine writes Targa and
TIFF files.  Impulse should consider adding this to the Amiga
Command:
version of Imagine; it could make things easier in cases like
what I am going through.

Soapbox

I have been using PC's at work and an Amiga in my home for years
now. It is incredibly inefficient to have start out in
one program and three or four programs later have the
data in the desired file format, colour depth and
resolution.  I don't want to have to spend my time thinking
Command:
about how I will get the work done because of all the software
steps.  There is an opportunity cost here;  I would rather
focus on the creative aspects of what I am doing rather than
the technical aspects of getting things done.

I find Imagine a pain sometimes because it is not always
apparent to me on how I will get the effects I want and
experimenting can take a long time on my A3000 - 25 MHz.
I am getting better!

Command:
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess most people have heard of the new package called "Repro
Studio Universal"; Spectronics International USA will have a demo
version up on their BBS in a about a week and half I was told.
I am going to look into this program before buying something
like Gigamem. I will post about it if and when I get the demo
version. I am very interested in this program because it has
features that neither AD Pro and ImageFX have like a structured
drawing module as part of it. Does anyone know of anything
Command:
else on the horizon?

The guy I am working with on this visual stuff ended up doing some
stuff in Corel Draw; I mention this because Corel Draw has a special
format for slides called something like "Skodal". Does anyone know
anything about this and why the heck doesn't any Amiga software
support it?


Anyway, it is has been said many times in the past; this mailing list
Command:
is indispensable!  Keep up the good work gang!

Manjit




Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6032 Re: Mirrors
12/27/93 14:46 17/ "Steve J. Lombardi" <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 17 (58%)
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>
> Hello all;
>       I tried making a mirror in 2.9 and it would reflect the ground
> and sky but nothing else. I tried a tree and a logo placed everywhere
> around it I even added a chrome sphere it to only reflected the ground
> and sky no matter where I placed all my other stuff.
> Any Ideas?
>
>                                       Thanks
>                                        Lesk
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>
You have to be in TRACE mode to get full reflection. In scanline
the ground and sky do reflect.

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6033 Just to clarify a point
12/27/93 21:16 9/ [e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)
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I was talking IBM and Amiga as both requiring a lot of program
shuffling.  It would be nice if Imagine made use of "clipboards".

Ultimately, if one could operate a paint program , a 3 D renederer
and an image processor and they co-operate together and share
a memory buffers things could be pretty funky. You would not
have to worry about file format Imagine uses; you get AD Pro
to save the 24 bit memory image in whatever format you like
without the intermediary step of saving a disk file.
-----
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6034 Just to clarify a point
12/28/93 06:08 20/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> shuffling.  It would be nice if Imagine made use of "clipboards".

Yep.  And I'll go you one further.  Of all the software I own, Imagine
is close to if not the poorest about using nifty OS features.  It has no
ARexx (its single biggest failing I think).  No clipboard.  No support
of the display database unless you go through screen promotion
utilities.  No support of datatypes (which is what would enable Imagine
to transparently read any graphics format, and have new ones installed
without modifying the Imagine code).  No standard file requester.  No
-----
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Command:
iconification of its screen.  Uses its hardcoded font instead of your
system font.  No direct drag-and-drop.  Etc.

I could go on at length.  But I think Imagine could be made *much* more
user friendly (fonts/requesters/clipboard/etc) and much more powerful
(Arexx/datatypes/etc) with not all that much work.  I doubt Impulse will
do any of this for Inagine 3.0 though.  At least, they don't have a very
good track record so far.

  - steve
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6035 Re: Mirrors
12/28/93 06:40 13/ the Shockwave Surfer <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 27 Dec 1993 [e-mail] wrote:

>       I tried making a mirror in 2.9 and it would reflect the ground
> and sky but nothing else. I tried a tree and a logo placed everywhere
> around it I even added a chrome sphere it to only reflected the ground
> and sky no matter where I placed all my other stuff.

        Yep. You are either:
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1) Rendering in scanline mode. Go to Trace mode.
2) Using a reflection brush for your mirror. Dump it.

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6036 Vertex modeller
12/28/93 06:45 60/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 60 (16%)
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After someone mentioned this on the IML a few months ago, I finally got
around to FTP'ing the Vertex demo.  I must say, it looks *very* nice.  I
only played with it for maybe 15 minutes, but as a modeller it looks
like it blows away Imagine's modeller in pretty much every regard
imaginable.  It'll read+write Imagine files, Caligari, Lightwave, and a
bunch of others I forgot.

Anyway, I'm looking for more information on this program.  The demo
archive gave an address, but didn't have a price or anything else.
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  - How much is Vertex?  I don't need an exact price, just a general
    range.

  - Does anyone have experience using it to build Imagine files?  It
    looks like it supports Imagine attributes, hierarchies, etc, but you
    have to assign the brushmaps manually when you get the objects into
    Imagine.  But since the demo version has save disabled, I couldn't
    really see how well it works.

Command:
  - The demo has a menu item for changing the standard view from
    wireframe to solid rendered.  However, this didn't seem to do
    anything.  Is there some trick I'm missing?

If the price is reasonable, I'll probably end up getting this.  If I do,
I'll post something about how it works with Imagine.

Anyway, here is a brief feature list which I got from my short trial of
the demo:

Command:
   * Custom primitives
   * beveling
   * Fractal trees defined by about 8-10 parameters or so.  They seemed
     nice, but I couldn't render them since you can't save in the demo
     version.
   * fractal displacement operators
   * fantastic real time response when editing.  It has the "feel" and
     response of the Caligari modeller.
   * There is some implication than you can actual edit in a filled
     polygon view, but I wasn't able to get it to work.
Command:
   * Lots of operators such as lathe, spin, extrude, etc.  In general
     they seemed much more powerful than the Imagine operations
     even where Imagine has any equivalent at all.
   * Some sort of spline object editing, but I didn't try it.
   * Some sort of "layers" like feature.
   * Standard OS file requesters (why can't Imagine do this??)
   * ARexx (yeah!) (again, why can't Imagine do this?).  There are some
     included examples of custom operations written in ARexx that come
     with the demo.

Command:
Since this thing has an ARexx port, it *would* be possible to connect it
to Imagine rather transparently, except that Impulse has yet to give us
an ARexx port in Imagine.  Sigh.  But at least it has the ability to
create custom operations if you need to, which is something I have
wanted many times in Imagine.  Anyway, it blows away the Imagine 2.0
detail editor, and I'm about 99.9% sure it'll also blow away the Imagine
3.0 detail editor too.  As long as I can be assured this works well with
Imagine, then I'm sold...

   - steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6037 IMPULSES LACK OF SPECIFIC OS SUPPORT
12/28/93 08:36 45/ "Steve J. Lombardi" <[e-mail]>
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> Yep.  And I'll go you one further.  Of all the software I own, Imagine
> is close to if not the poorest about using nifty OS features.  It has no
> ARexx (its single biggest failing I think).  No clipboard.  No support
> of the display database unless you go through screen promotion
> utilities.  No support of datatypes (which is what would enable Imagine
> to transparently read any graphics format, and have new ones installed
> without modifying the Imagine code).  No standard file requester.  No
> iconification of its screen.  Uses its hardcoded font instead of your
> system font.  No direct drag-and-drop.  Etc.
>
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> I could go on at length.  But I think Imagine could be made *much* more
> user friendly (fonts/requesters/clipboard/etc) and much more powerful
> (Arexx/datatypes/etc) with not all that much work.  I doubt Impulse will
> do any of this for Inagine 3.0 though.  At least, they don't have a very
> good track record so far.
>
>   - steve
>
AGREED! Imagine does not take advantage of the Amigas killer OS at all. I have
a feeling this will never change. Impulse has told me that they do not
Command:
support the ASL file requestor as there is no equivivilant on the PC. I
can only imagine that for the same reason the chance of support for the
display database, arexx, datatypes, and all of the other goodies that
make an amiga an amiga will never be implemented. This sucks. I may as
well be running in the msdos "environment". THe writing is on the wall.
Too bad. for years silver/turbo/imagine has kicked ass. Impulse has fallen
behind in features and shows no sign of supporting the OS.

I have never had the duty of maintaining/writing portable code for multiple
platforms complete with gui support etc... but if I had this duty it
Command:
seems that I would maintain a library of "core" code (such as the render
algos) that CAN be generic to any platform. OS stuff specific to each
system would be maintained seperately in plug and play libraries. IS this
outrageous?? Am I missing something? It seems like almost no extra work
to support each platform. Isn't this why we have structured, modular,
OO approaches to coding?

BTW... This is not meant as a flame towards impulse. THey can manage
or mis-manage their software however they please. users can then choose
to use/not use their product. I merely hope to continue a constructive thread
Command:
on the subject of OS support and imagine.

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6038 mirrors2
12/28/93 09:50 22/ [e-mail]
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------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

Received: from CC.SNOW.EDU by student-lab.nov.snow.edu (Mercury 1.0);
Thanks to all who have responded.
    The consensus has been that you have to render in trace.
I am in trace. I have a 640X400 24ILBM image in trace selected I have not
been using quickrender. My objects were made using the new metals and set
for chrome. smooth and antique 0. I did not change or modify any attributes
-----
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Command:
other than the texture, and I have no brushmaps in use.
    Is it possible that something in the attributes could be doing this?
I do remember reading something about it in the old IMLFAQ. although my
mirror is not invisible as discussed there. At 28 minutes a picture I think
I will try something else. I have lost quite a little bit of time playing
with it.

                Again Thanks to all and to all a great render
                           Lesk
P.S. I just recieved mail from Jeff W. and he suggested my resolve
Command:
depth may be set to 0. I was playing around trying to change EDLE and
I think I may have set the resolve depth instead of EDLE.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6039
12/28/93 09:13 31/ [e-mail]
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From delphi.com!pjfoley Tue Dec 28 08:57:20 1993
Received: from delphi.com by cyber.cyber.net id aa03618; 28 Dec 93 8:57 PST
Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V4.2-11 #4520) id
 <[e-mail]>; Tue, 28 Dec 1993 01:37:22 EDT
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1993 01:37:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Brilliance IFFs don't load as brushmaps
To: [e-mail]
Message-id: <[e-mail]>
X-VMS-To: IN%"[e-mail]"
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT


I have told Digital Creations that Imagine will not load their IFFs
AND Brilliance will not load Imagine's IFFs.  Brillance is the only program
I know of that has problems with Imagine's IFF24's, so I tend to blame
Brilliance.

Command:
Another thing to check, however, is to set the colors in the screen setup
to "Out of 4096".  This will keep you to a 12bit pallette, which Imagine
2.0 is expecting (being from pre-AGA days).

Otherwise load then save with ADPro or even Dpaint.

PJ
Kinetic Dreams

(I hope I posted this to the IML....  ooops)
Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6040 automating imagine (sort of)
12/28/93 09:12 12/ [e-mail]
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     I wanted to render all of the textures for reference, but quickly
     tired of manually changing attributes over and over.  So I used
     the program 'journal' which records mouse movement and/or
     keystrokes along with an arexx program to automate the process.
     I haven't yet finished the program, but I've eliminated all mouse
     movement repetition and used 'Hotkey!' to run the scripts
     created by 'journal'.  If you are working on a project that
     requires a lot of repetition, give this combo a try.  It's easy
     to put together.  Of course, none of this would be needed if we
     could call imagine directly from arexx, a very basic need IMHO.
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     Ed
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6041 $$ for School
12/28/93 10:30 60/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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        Re: Financial Assistance for College

        I have read a number of mail messages and news posts from students
        on the network needing money for school.  I have even read ads from
        students selling their computers in order to get money to continue
        their education.  Considering the need, I wanted to pass on this
        information.

        A friend of mine, Virginie Audrain, has recently started a home
-----
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Command:
        business matching people with financial aid.  She has a Ph.D. in
        Geography and was able to go all the way through school practically
        free because she was born and raised in France.  She is living in
        the US now and was shocked at the cost of receiving an education
        here.  My college financial horror stories and ones from persons in
        my family and other friends, moved her to start a small business
        which now has access to a nation wide database to find financial aid
        sources for people wanting to go to college.

        Virginie informed me that the National Commission on Student
Command:
        Financial Assistance estimated in 1989 that there was approximately
        $7 BILLION of available aid from the private sector, but that only
        $400 MILLION was used.  There are actually corporations out there
        that need to give money as tax shelters.

        Virginie is so sure that she can direct you to sources of money,
        you will get two guarantees:

          o  She can find you AT LEAST 6 non-Federal sources of financial
             aid.  If she can't find you at least 6 sources, her search
Command:
             is free of charge.

          o  Any student who has been matched to 6 or more sources, who
             applied before the appropriate deadlines, but who did not
             receive at least $100 in financial aid, will receive a $100
             US Savings bond.


        And the really interesting part is that many scholarships are not
        awarded strictly on financial need or academic achievement.  Some
Command:
        are awarded strictly on the basis of race, sex, hobbies, field of
        study, heritage, or even a person's name.

        There are BILLIONS of dollars in aid waiting to be claimed if you
        know how and where to apply for it.  She knows how and where, and
        only charges $79.00 for her search.

        If your interested, need more information, or know someone who
        might benefit from her research, please contact:

Command:
                ReSource
                P.O. Box 18204
                Huntsville, Al 35804-8201
                Attn: Virginie Audrain

                ph: [phone]


        Note:  I am not an employee of ReSource.  Just someone seeing an
        opportunity to fill a need with the resources that are available.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6042 Just to clarify a point
12/28/93 06:08 20/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> shuffling.  It would be nice if Imagine made use of "clipboards".

Yep.  And I'll go you one further.  Of all the software I own, Imagine
is close to if not the poorest about using nifty OS features.  It has no
ARexx (its single biggest failing I think).  No clipboard.  No support
of the display database unless you go through screen promotion
utilities.  No support of datatypes (which is what would enable Imagine
to transparently read any graphics format, and have new ones installed
without modifying the Imagine code).  No standard file requester.  No
-----
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Command:
iconification of its screen.  Uses its hardcoded font instead of your
system font.  No direct drag-and-drop.  Etc.

I could go on at length.  But I think Imagine could be made *much* more
user friendly (fonts/requesters/clipboard/etc) and much more powerful
(Arexx/datatypes/etc) with not all that much work.  I doubt Impulse will
do any of this for Inagine 3.0 though.  At least, they don't have a very
good track record so far.

  - steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6043 automating imagine (sort of)
12/28/93 09:12 12/ [e-mail]
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     I wanted to render all of the textures for reference, but quickly
     tired of manually changing attributes over and over.  So I used
     the program 'journal' which records mouse movement and/or
     keystrokes along with an arexx program to automate the process.
     I haven't yet finished the program, but I've eliminated all mouse
     movement repetition and used 'Hotkey!' to run the scripts
     created by 'journal'.  If you are working on a project that
     requires a lot of repetition, give this combo a try.  It's easy
     to put together.  Of course, none of this would be needed if we
     could call imagine directly from arexx, a very basic need IMHO.
-----
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Command:

     Ed
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6044 Re: Mirrors
12/28/93 06:40 13/ the Shockwave Surfer <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 27 Dec 1993 [e-mail] wrote:

>       I tried making a mirror in 2.9 and it would reflect the ground
> and sky but nothing else. I tried a tree and a logo placed everywhere
> around it I even added a chrome sphere it to only reflected the ground
> and sky no matter where I placed all my other stuff.

        Yep. You are either:
-----
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Command:
1) Rendering in scanline mode. Go to Trace mode.
2) Using a reflection brush for your mirror. Dump it.

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6045 mirrors2
12/28/93 09:50 22/ [e-mail]
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------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

Received: from CC.SNOW.EDU by student-lab.nov.snow.edu (Mercury 1.0);
Thanks to all who have responded.
    The consensus has been that you have to render in trace.
I am in trace. I have a 640X400 24ILBM image in trace selected I have not
been using quickrender. My objects were made using the new metals and set
for chrome. smooth and antique 0. I did not change or modify any attributes
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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Command:
other than the texture, and I have no brushmaps in use.
    Is it possible that something in the attributes could be doing this?
I do remember reading something about it in the old IMLFAQ. although my
mirror is not invisible as discussed there. At 28 minutes a picture I think
I will try something else. I have lost quite a little bit of time playing
with it.

                Again Thanks to all and to all a great render
                           Lesk
P.S. I just recieved mail from Jeff W. and he suggested my resolve
Command:
depth may be set to 0. I was playing around trying to change EDLE and
I think I may have set the resolve depth instead of EDLE.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6046 $$ for School
12/28/93 10:30 60/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
Lines 1 to 10 of 60 (16%)
-----
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

        Re: Financial Assistance for College

        I have read a number of mail messages and news posts from students
        on the network needing money for school.  I have even read ads from
        students selling their computers in order to get money to continue
        their education.  Considering the need, I wanted to pass on this
        information.

        A friend of mine, Virginie Audrain, has recently started a home
-----
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Command:
        business matching people with financial aid.  She has a Ph.D. in
        Geography and was able to go all the way through school practically
        free because she was born and raised in France.  She is living in
        the US now and was shocked at the cost of receiving an education
        here.  My college financial horror stories and ones from persons in
        my family and other friends, moved her to start a small business
        which now has access to a nation wide database to find financial aid
        sources for people wanting to go to college.

        Virginie informed me that the National Commission on Student
Command:
        Financial Assistance estimated in 1989 that there was approximately
        $7 BILLION of available aid from the private sector, but that only
        $400 MILLION was used.  There are actually corporations out there
        that need to give money as tax shelters.

        Virginie is so sure that she can direct you to sources of money,
        you will get two guarantees:

          o  She can find you AT LEAST 6 non-Federal sources of financial
             aid.  If she can't find you at least 6 sources, her search
Command:
             is free of charge.

          o  Any student who has been matched to 6 or more sources, who
             applied before the appropriate deadlines, but who did not
             receive at least $100 in financial aid, will receive a $100
             US Savings bond.


        And the really interesting part is that many scholarships are not
        awarded strictly on financial need or academic achievement.  Some
Command:
        are awarded strictly on the basis of race, sex, hobbies, field of
        study, heritage, or even a person's name.

        There are BILLIONS of dollars in aid waiting to be claimed if you
        know how and where to apply for it.  She knows how and where, and
        only charges $79.00 for her search.

        If your interested, need more information, or know someone who
        might benefit from her research, please contact:

Command:
                ReSource
                P.O. Box 18204
                Huntsville, Al 35804-8201
                Attn: Virginie Audrain

                ph: [phone]


        Note:  I am not an employee of ReSource.  Just someone seeing an
        opportunity to fill a need with the resources that are available.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6047 IMPULSES LACK OF SPECIFIC OS SUPPORT
12/28/93 08:36 45/ "Steve J. Lombardi" <[e-mail]>
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> Yep.  And I'll go you one further.  Of all the software I own, Imagine
> is close to if not the poorest about using nifty OS features.  It has no
> ARexx (its single biggest failing I think).  No clipboard.  No support
> of the display database unless you go through screen promotion
> utilities.  No support of datatypes (which is what would enable Imagine
> to transparently read any graphics format, and have new ones installed
> without modifying the Imagine code).  No standard file requester.  No
> iconification of its screen.  Uses its hardcoded font instead of your
> system font.  No direct drag-and-drop.  Etc.
>
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> I could go on at length.  But I think Imagine could be made *much* more
> user friendly (fonts/requesters/clipboard/etc) and much more powerful
> (Arexx/datatypes/etc) with not all that much work.  I doubt Impulse will
> do any of this for Inagine 3.0 though.  At least, they don't have a very
> good track record so far.
>
>   - steve
>
AGREED! Imagine does not take advantage of the Amigas killer OS at all. I have
a feeling this will never change. Impulse has told me that they do not
Command:
support the ASL file requestor as there is no equivivilant on the PC. I
can only imagine that for the same reason the chance of support for the
display database, arexx, datatypes, and all of the other goodies that
make an amiga an amiga will never be implemented. This sucks. I may as
well be running in the msdos "environment". THe writing is on the wall.
Too bad. for years silver/turbo/imagine has kicked ass. Impulse has fallen
behind in features and shows no sign of supporting the OS.

I have never had the duty of maintaining/writing portable code for multiple
platforms complete with gui support etc... but if I had this duty it
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seems that I would maintain a library of "core" code (such as the render
algos) that CAN be generic to any platform. OS stuff specific to each
system would be maintained seperately in plug and play libraries. IS this
outrageous?? Am I missing something? It seems like almost no extra work
to support each platform. Isn't this why we have structured, modular,
OO approaches to coding?

BTW... This is not meant as a flame towards impulse. THey can manage
or mis-manage their software however they please. users can then choose
to use/not use their product. I merely hope to continue a constructive thread
Command:
on the subject of OS support and imagine.

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6048 Vertex modeller
12/28/93 06:45 60/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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After someone mentioned this on the IML a few months ago, I finally got
around to FTP'ing the Vertex demo.  I must say, it looks *very* nice.  I
only played with it for maybe 15 minutes, but as a modeller it looks
like it blows away Imagine's modeller in pretty much every regard
imaginable.  It'll read+write Imagine files, Caligari, Lightwave, and a
bunch of others I forgot.

Anyway, I'm looking for more information on this program.  The demo
archive gave an address, but didn't have a price or anything else.
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  - How much is Vertex?  I don't need an exact price, just a general
    range.

  - Does anyone have experience using it to build Imagine files?  It
    looks like it supports Imagine attributes, hierarchies, etc, but you
    have to assign the brushmaps manually when you get the objects into
    Imagine.  But since the demo version has save disabled, I couldn't
    really see how well it works.

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  - The demo has a menu item for changing the standard view from
    wireframe to solid rendered.  However, this didn't seem to do
    anything.  Is there some trick I'm missing?

If the price is reasonable, I'll probably end up getting this.  If I do,
I'll post something about how it works with Imagine.

Anyway, here is a brief feature list which I got from my short trial of
the demo:

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   * Custom primitives
   * beveling
   * Fractal trees defined by about 8-10 parameters or so.  They seemed
     nice, but I couldn't render them since you can't save in the demo
     version.
   * fractal displacement operators
   * fantastic real time response when editing.  It has the "feel" and
     response of the Caligari modeller.
   * There is some implication than you can actual edit in a filled
     polygon view, but I wasn't able to get it to work.
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   * Lots of operators such as lathe, spin, extrude, etc.  In general
     they seemed much more powerful than the Imagine operations
     even where Imagine has any equivalent at all.
   * Some sort of spline object editing, but I didn't try it.
   * Some sort of "layers" like feature.
   * Standard OS file requesters (why can't Imagine do this??)
   * ARexx (yeah!) (again, why can't Imagine do this?).  There are some
     included examples of custom operations written in ARexx that come
     with the demo.

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Since this thing has an ARexx port, it *would* be possible to connect it
to Imagine rather transparently, except that Impulse has yet to give us
an ARexx port in Imagine.  Sigh.  But at least it has the ability to
create custom operations if you need to, which is something I have
wanted many times in Imagine.  Anyway, it blows away the Imagine 2.0
detail editor, and I'm about 99.9% sure it'll also blow away the Imagine
3.0 detail editor too.  As long as I can be assured this works well with
Imagine, then I'm sold...

   - steve
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6049 RE:  $$ for School
12/28/93 19:40 11/ [e-mail] (Joe Garner)
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Might be nice but be careful.  There are as many rip offs as there are ligit people doing this.

Be careful anytime people promise you money for something.

Remember that you can get this help WITHOUT paying any money.  Check with your school, do some digging on your own.

Mostly these things are a big rip off, and who got off the subject of Imagine?  I don't see the connection.

Putting my 1/50th of a buck in.
joe
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6050 Re: Vertex modeller
12/28/93 20:53 26/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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>   - How much is Vertex?  I don't need an exact price, just a general
>     range.

I believe it's about $45 or $50.


>   - The demo has a menu item for changing the standard view from
>     wireframe to solid rendered.  However, this didn't seem to do
>     anything.  Is there some trick I'm missing?

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If I remember correctly, that setting is only for the animated view
(which is nice, check it out if you've not, it rotates your object a
full 360 degrees in "real" time).


>    * Fractal trees defined by about 8-10 parameters or so.  They seemed
>      nice, but I couldn't render them since you can't save in the demo
>    * fractal displacement operators

Those are my two favorite features.  (I only have seen the demo tho).
Command:
The trees look great, and the fractal displacement can give a more
realistic "rough" look to the edges of your objects.  Kind of like the
"jitter" in LW Modeler.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6051 2.9 Screen Sizes
12/28/93 21:09 5/ [e-mail]
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Has anybody found out what the 'magic' bytes for tweaking Imagine 2.9's
screen sizes yet?  I've tried screen promotors, but can't seem to get
anything to work with it yet.

Douglas Bullard
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6052 Humanoid
12/29/93 00:03 13/ "R. Luettgens" <[e-mail]>
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I am using the Humanoid models with IM 2.9 to create an animation
where the humanoid gets of the floor like the cute stuff in
Terminator II. Does someone has a good idea on how to place a
checkered texture such that it looks right (Texture covers body
and ground, as if the floor lies over the body).
Any hints would be appreciated.

Anybody out there using CLARISSA ? It uses the SSA Super Smooth
Animation format, its incredible.
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Regards,
R.L.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6053 RE:  $$ for School
12/28/93 19:40 11/ [e-mail] (Joe Garner)
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Might be nice but be careful.  There are as many rip offs as there are ligit people doing this.

Be careful anytime people promise you money for something.

Remember that you can get this help WITHOUT paying any money.  Check with your school, do some digging on your own.

Mostly these things are a big rip off, and who got off the subject of Imagine?  I don't see the connection.

Putting my 1/50th of a buck in.
joe
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6054 $$ for School (fwd)
12/29/93 06:28 26/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|
|
|>      Re: Financial Assistance for College
|
|Perhaps you could explain what, exactly, this has to do with Imagine or
|computer graphics?

        It doesn't.  So forgive me if I have inconvenienced anyone.  Like
        I said I read quite a few posts from Imagine users that are
        students.  I thought I could help them, and my friend, with a
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        short post.

        As for the rip off part...  I can assure you it is not a rip off.
        But I understand your concern.  Sorry for the bandwidth usage.
        I'll behave myself now.

        Dale


        ____________________________^____________________________
Command:
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6055 automating imagine (sort of)
12/29/93 07:07 20/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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>      to put together.  Of course, none of this would be needed if we
>      could call imagine directly from arexx, a very basic need IMHO.

I also think it is the most basic need in Imagine right now.  There seem
to be a number of people who agree.  Perhaps it might be useful to draft
a letter to Impulse, saying essentially, "You haven't added an ARexx
port to Imagine yet, and here are the names of 4 bazillion people who
think it is just about the most useful thing you could add right now".
Worded more diplomatically of course.  Can't hurt to try anyway.
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Shucks, I'll even volunteer to design it for 'em, or maybe they can
contract Apex do it.  Lord knows I don't trust _them_ to get it right.
If left up to Impulse, they'll probably come up with something which
won't talk to any other ARexx program in the world, is hopelessly
cumbersome, and doesn't go through the normal system interfaces but
instead invents its own interprocess message passing mechanism.  (Only
1/2 :-) here).

  - steve
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6056 Using AGA
12/29/93 07:51 16/ [e-mail]
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Hi all;
        Well I have been using the aga option in imagine, the only time
I ran into a problem is when building the animation after the frames have
been rendered.
        I have built about 10 anims now without a hitch

        1) build your frames as ILBM AGA 24bit
        2) use rend24 to build the anim
        3) use vt to change to anim7 (only for speed in my case)
        4) use vt to run the anim
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They look great! VT will also display any individual pic.xxxx from your
list of frames. very nice for video.

                                        Have Fun
                                         Lesk
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6057 Re: Vertex modeller
12/28/93 20:53 26/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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>   - How much is Vertex?  I don't need an exact price, just a general
>     range.

I believe it's about $45 or $50.


>   - The demo has a menu item for changing the standard view from
>     wireframe to solid rendered.  However, this didn't seem to do
>     anything.  Is there some trick I'm missing?

-----
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Command:
If I remember correctly, that setting is only for the animated view
(which is nice, check it out if you've not, it rotates your object a
full 360 degrees in "real" time).


>    * Fractal trees defined by about 8-10 parameters or so.  They seemed
>      nice, but I couldn't render them since you can't save in the demo
>    * fractal displacement operators

Those are my two favorite features.  (I only have seen the demo tho).
Command:
The trees look great, and the fractal displacement can give a more
realistic "rough" look to the edges of your objects.  Kind of like the
"jitter" in LW Modeler.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6058 Re: Mirrors
12/28/93 06:40 13/ the Shockwave Surfer <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 27 Dec 1993 [e-mail] wrote:

>       I tried making a mirror in 2.9 and it would reflect the ground
> and sky but nothing else. I tried a tree and a logo placed everywhere
> around it I even added a chrome sphere it to only reflected the ground
> and sky no matter where I placed all my other stuff.

        Yep. You are either:
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1) Rendering in scanline mode. Go to Trace mode.
2) Using a reflection brush for your mirror. Dump it.

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6059 automating imagine (sort of)
12/28/93 09:12 12/ [e-mail]
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     I wanted to render all of the textures for reference, but quickly
     tired of manually changing attributes over and over.  So I used
     the program 'journal' which records mouse movement and/or
     keystrokes along with an arexx program to automate the process.
     I haven't yet finished the program, but I've eliminated all mouse
     movement repetition and used 'Hotkey!' to run the scripts
     created by 'journal'.  If you are working on a project that
     requires a lot of repetition, give this combo a try.  It's easy
     to put together.  Of course, none of this would be needed if we
     could call imagine directly from arexx, a very basic need IMHO.
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     Ed
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6060 IMPULSES LACK OF SPECIFIC OS SUPPORT
12/28/93 08:36 45/ "Steve J. Lombardi" <[e-mail]>
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> Yep.  And I'll go you one further.  Of all the software I own, Imagine
> is close to if not the poorest about using nifty OS features.  It has no
> ARexx (its single biggest failing I think).  No clipboard.  No support
> of the display database unless you go through screen promotion
> utilities.  No support of datatypes (which is what would enable Imagine
> to transparently read any graphics format, and have new ones installed
> without modifying the Imagine code).  No standard file requester.  No
> iconification of its screen.  Uses its hardcoded font instead of your
> system font.  No direct drag-and-drop.  Etc.
>
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> I could go on at length.  But I think Imagine could be made *much* more
> user friendly (fonts/requesters/clipboard/etc) and much more powerful
> (Arexx/datatypes/etc) with not all that much work.  I doubt Impulse will
> do any of this for Inagine 3.0 though.  At least, they don't have a very
> good track record so far.
>
>   - steve
>
AGREED! Imagine does not take advantage of the Amigas killer OS at all. I have
a feeling this will never change. Impulse has told me that they do not
Command:
support the ASL file requestor as there is no equivivilant on the PC. I
can only imagine that for the same reason the chance of support for the
display database, arexx, datatypes, and all of the other goodies that
make an amiga an amiga will never be implemented. This sucks. I may as
well be running in the msdos "environment". THe writing is on the wall.
Too bad. for years silver/turbo/imagine has kicked ass. Impulse has fallen
behind in features and shows no sign of supporting the OS.

I have never had the duty of maintaining/writing portable code for multiple
platforms complete with gui support etc... but if I had this duty it
Command:
seems that I would maintain a library of "core" code (such as the render
algos) that CAN be generic to any platform. OS stuff specific to each
system would be maintained seperately in plug and play libraries. IS this
outrageous?? Am I missing something? It seems like almost no extra work
to support each platform. Isn't this why we have structured, modular,
OO approaches to coding?

BTW... This is not meant as a flame towards impulse. THey can manage
or mis-manage their software however they please. users can then choose
to use/not use their product. I merely hope to continue a constructive thread
Command:
on the subject of OS support and imagine.

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6061 $$ for School
12/28/93 10:30 60/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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        Re: Financial Assistance for College

        I have read a number of mail messages and news posts from students
        on the network needing money for school.  I have even read ads from
        students selling their computers in order to get money to continue
        their education.  Considering the need, I wanted to pass on this
        information.

        A friend of mine, Virginie Audrain, has recently started a home
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        business matching people with financial aid.  She has a Ph.D. in
        Geography and was able to go all the way through school practically
        free because she was born and raised in France.  She is living in
        the US now and was shocked at the cost of receiving an education
        here.  My college financial horror stories and ones from persons in
        my family and other friends, moved her to start a small business
        which now has access to a nation wide database to find financial aid
        sources for people wanting to go to college.

        Virginie informed me that the National Commission on Student
Command:
        Financial Assistance estimated in 1989 that there was approximately
        $7 BILLION of available aid from the private sector, but that only
        $400 MILLION was used.  There are actually corporations out there
        that need to give money as tax shelters.

        Virginie is so sure that she can direct you to sources of money,
        you will get two guarantees:

          o  She can find you AT LEAST 6 non-Federal sources of financial
             aid.  If she can't find you at least 6 sources, her search
Command:
             is free of charge.

          o  Any student who has been matched to 6 or more sources, who
             applied before the appropriate deadlines, but who did not
             receive at least $100 in financial aid, will receive a $100
             US Savings bond.


        And the really interesting part is that many scholarships are not
        awarded strictly on financial need or academic achievement.  Some
Command:
        are awarded strictly on the basis of race, sex, hobbies, field of
        study, heritage, or even a person's name.

        There are BILLIONS of dollars in aid waiting to be claimed if you
        know how and where to apply for it.  She knows how and where, and
        only charges $79.00 for her search.

        If your interested, need more information, or know someone who
        might benefit from her research, please contact:

Command:
                ReSource
                P.O. Box 18204
                Huntsville, Al 35804-8201
                Attn: Virginie Audrain

                ph: [phone]


        Note:  I am not an employee of ReSource.  Just someone seeing an
        opportunity to fill a need with the resources that are available.
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6062 Just to clarify a point
12/28/93 06:08 20/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> shuffling.  It would be nice if Imagine made use of "clipboards".

Yep.  And I'll go you one further.  Of all the software I own, Imagine
is close to if not the poorest about using nifty OS features.  It has no
ARexx (its single biggest failing I think).  No clipboard.  No support
of the display database unless you go through screen promotion
utilities.  No support of datatypes (which is what would enable Imagine
to transparently read any graphics format, and have new ones installed
without modifying the Imagine code).  No standard file requester.  No
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iconification of its screen.  Uses its hardcoded font instead of your
system font.  No direct drag-and-drop.  Etc.

I could go on at length.  But I think Imagine could be made *much* more
user friendly (fonts/requesters/clipboard/etc) and much more powerful
(Arexx/datatypes/etc) with not all that much work.  I doubt Impulse will
do any of this for Inagine 3.0 though.  At least, they don't have a very
good track record so far.

  - steve
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6063 2 2 messages messages
12/29/93 08:25 25/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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Is anyone else recieving duplicate copies of messages from the ILM?

Is anyone else recieving duplicate copies of messages from the ILM?

:)


ps I noticed how quickly we got back to Impulse bashing.  Their reprieve
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didn't last too long from the release of 2.9....Anyone done any nice
anims with brush tacking yet?  A snake or something?


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin

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Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6064 ---MERRY X-MAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!---
12/29/93 00:05 51/ "- Carsten Berggreen - Denmark -" <[e-mail]>
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(I wrote this on the 16th december, but the mailer failed the address...)

Hi and hello to everybody who spend the time/money to read this letter!!!

I'm just sooooooo happy, my holiday has just begun (15/12/93 ->> 07/01/94) !!!!
Now, is THAT a holiday or ??? (I just love this computer-education!!!)

Well, if you're looking for any imagine related stuff here, then here it is...
"Does anyone have a "Santa Claus" imagine object that I could have a copy of??"
(or DO I have to make one myself???? ?(<-- the last one is the MOST important!)
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BTW: I'm ALSO looking for a "sweet looking" snowman....(!?) and a lemming
(you know with a carrot nose and ..... )

Now a little question:
What is this surposed to be: ---->   *{3    <---- (a star, a bracket and a "3")


Well, it's a LEMMING!!!!!!!!! He IS a kind of cute, isn't he???

Now I think it's time to end this happy letter, so:
Command:

          !
                !               !         !
     !  **   ** ******* ******  ******  **   **                 !
        *** *** **   !  **   ** ** ! ** **  !**     !
 !      ******* *****   ******  ******   ** **   !
   !    ** * ** ** !    ** ! ** **   **   ***
        **   ** ******* **   ** **   **   *** !           !
         !     !                 !                 !
     !          **   **   !     **   **  *****   ******            !
Command:
 !     !    !   **   **         *** *** **   ** **    !
                 *****   *****  ******* *******  *****       !
!       !       **   **      !  ** * ** **   **  !   **
                **   **!        **   ** **   ** ******  !      !

        A N D   A   V E R Y   H A P P Y   N E W   Y E A R   ! ! !

        --- > From ALL of ME (???)

                --- > To ALL of YOU (Imagineers!!!!!!!!!)
Command:

Signed
---------------------------------------------------------------------
- Address: Carsten Berggreen         E-mail: [e-mail] -
-          Hirsevaenget 16A                                         -
-          8464  Galten          "It isn't the equipment alone, it  -
-          Denmark                is also what YOU can do with it!" -
---------------------------------------------------------------------
- A true fan of Amiga, Coca-Cola, Imagine and good looking females! -
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6065 More Grow F/X problems
12/29/93 08:20 12/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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Ok, so right now the Grow F/X doesn't seem to work on Imagine 2.9. But,
how about all the problems in 2.0 ? I was already aware that the scaling
function doesn't work, but now I've found out that the object being
extruded doesn't pass on the color attributes to the extruded bit. All I
seem to get is a first and last segment in target color and black inbetween!
I've tried everything with this except for making it a light!

Can anyone help ? If you can tell e the solution!

Nik.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6066 Vertex modeller
12/28/93 06:45 60/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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After someone mentioned this on the IML a few months ago, I finally got
around to FTP'ing the Vertex demo.  I must say, it looks *very* nice.  I
only played with it for maybe 15 minutes, but as a modeller it looks
like it blows away Imagine's modeller in pretty much every regard
imaginable.  It'll read+write Imagine files, Caligari, Lightwave, and a
bunch of others I forgot.

Anyway, I'm looking for more information on this program.  The demo
archive gave an address, but didn't have a price or anything else.
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  - How much is Vertex?  I don't need an exact price, just a general
    range.

  - Does anyone have experience using it to build Imagine files?  It
    looks like it supports Imagine attributes, hierarchies, etc, but you
    have to assign the brushmaps manually when you get the objects into
    Imagine.  But since the demo version has save disabled, I couldn't
    really see how well it works.

Command:
  - The demo has a menu item for changing the standard view from
    wireframe to solid rendered.  However, this didn't seem to do
    anything.  Is there some trick I'm missing?

If the price is reasonable, I'll probably end up getting this.  If I do,
I'll post something about how it works with Imagine.

Anyway, here is a brief feature list which I got from my short trial of
the demo:

Command:
   * Custom primitives
   * beveling
   * Fractal trees defined by about 8-10 parameters or so.  They seemed
     nice, but I couldn't render them since you can't save in the demo
     version.
   * fractal displacement operators
   * fantastic real time response when editing.  It has the "feel" and
     response of the Caligari modeller.
   * There is some implication than you can actual edit in a filled
     polygon view, but I wasn't able to get it to work.
Command:
   * Lots of operators such as lathe, spin, extrude, etc.  In general
     they seemed much more powerful than the Imagine operations
     even where Imagine has any equivalent at all.
   * Some sort of spline object editing, but I didn't try it.
   * Some sort of "layers" like feature.
   * Standard OS file requesters (why can't Imagine do this??)
   * ARexx (yeah!) (again, why can't Imagine do this?).  There are some
     included examples of custom operations written in ARexx that come
     with the demo.

Command:
Since this thing has an ARexx port, it *would* be possible to connect it
to Imagine rather transparently, except that Impulse has yet to give us
an ARexx port in Imagine.  Sigh.  But at least it has the ability to
create custom operations if you need to, which is something I have
wanted many times in Imagine.  Anyway, it blows away the Imagine 2.0
detail editor, and I'm about 99.9% sure it'll also blow away the Imagine
3.0 detail editor too.  As long as I can be assured this works well with
Imagine, then I'm sold...

   - steve
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6067 Re: Humanoid
12/29/93 10:06 25/ Peter Garza <[e-mail]>
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> I am using the Humanoid models with IM 2.9 to create an animation
> where the humanoid gets of the floor like the cute stuff in
> Terminator II. Does someone has a good idea on how to place a
> checkered texture such that it looks right (Texture covers body
> and ground, as if the floor lies over the body).
> Any hints would be appreciated.

What about grouping the human to the ground and have the ground tile
texture applied to the child.  I don't have 2.9, but if it has texture
tacking, squash the human out, make this the base for the texture, then
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have it morph to human.  Hope this helps.

>
> Anybody out there using CLARISSA ? It uses the SSA Super Smooth
> Animation format, its incredible.

What is SSA?  What is CLARISSA for that matter :) ?

>
> Regards,
Command:
> R.L.
>

Peter Garza
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6068 Re: Humanoid
12/29/93 10:51 22/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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>
> I am using the Humanoid models with IM 2.9 to create an animation
> where the humanoid gets of the floor like the cute stuff in
> Terminator II. Does someone has a good idea on how to place a
> checkered texture such that it looks right (Texture covers body
> and ground, as if the floor lies over the body).
> Any hints would be appreciated.
>
My guess would be to align the texture objects of both objects to each other.
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Imagine uses the hit coords in relation to the texture axis to determine what
color to show.  So I would: 1) align the texture axis with the object axis on
both objects 2) in the stage, align both object axis on top of each other, X
on X, Y on Y, and Z on Z.  I think this will work, although I haven't tried
it.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

Command:
"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6069 Multiple Posts received
12/29/93 10:36 7/ "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]
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  I am getting 2 and 3 copies of each post to this list.  I hope
this can be corrected.  I don't like reading old news, over, and over
again.

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6070 Multiple messages
12/29/93 11:12 32/ "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]
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Yes, Yes,

  Today I've gotten 4 and 5 copies of the same posts.  Some from a few
days ago.  I wish this would stop.  It's making me crazy.

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]

===================================================================

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From:   IN%"[e-mail]" 29-DEC-1993 11:20:14.55
To:     IN%"[e-mail]"
CC:
Subj:   2 2 messages messages



Is anyone else recieving duplicate copies of messages from the ILM?

Is anyone else recieving duplicate copies of messages from the ILM?
Command:

:)


ps I noticed how quickly we got back to Impulse bashing.  Their reprieve
didn't last too long from the release of 2.9....Anyone done any nice
anims with brush tacking yet?  A snake or something?


Tom Setzer
Command:
[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6071 Re: Humanoid
12/29/93 12:14 44/ [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
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>>>>> "Tom" == Thomas Setzer <[e-mail]> writes:

>>  I am using the Humanoid models with IM 2.9 to create an animation
>> where the humanoid gets of the floor like the cute stuff in
>> Terminator II. Does someone has a good idea on how to place a
>> checkered texture such that it looks right (Texture covers body and
>> ground, as if the floor lies over the body).  Any hints would be
>> appreciated.
>>
Tom> My guess would be to align the texture objects of both objects to
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Tom> each other.  Imagine uses the hit coords in relation to the
Tom> texture axis to determine what color to show.  So I would: 1)
Tom> align the texture axis with the object axis on both objects 2) in
Tom> the stage, align both object axis on top of each other, X on X, Y
Tom> on Y, and Z on Z.  I think this will work, although I haven't
Tom> tried it.

        Yes, this should be fine as long as your texture is a 2D
texture, of course.  In other words, if it ignores the Z (or third)
component (height) of your object.  A 3D checks would obviously not
Command:
work for this.

        Also, this does not "smooth" between the object and the floor,
unfortunately.  To have the object "oooz" out of the floor you really
would have to do some morphing.

        Along with Tom's suggestion, I think I would take the object
and make a widened and flattened version of it.  Then, I would
probably make two or three intermediate versions of the object, each
with an upward parabolic deflection of the middle section, with the
Command:
sides gradually moving in toward "normal".

        Then I would have four objects, for example, ready to morph...
The widened flattened one morphs to intermediate #1, morphing on to
intermediate #2, then morphing to the original unmodified object.  I
would make the first three objects by writing a program and using
T3DLIB.

        To make a convincing puddle of liquid which collects as in T2
is much more difficult than my above description, but I think the
Command:
above would make for an excellent start.

                                                        -- Glenn

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6072 Re: Using AGA
12/29/93 12:53 22/ [e-mail]
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[e-mail] says:
>
> Hi all;
>       Well I have been using the aga option in imagine, the only time
> I ran into a problem is when building the animation after the frames have
> been rendered.
>       I have built about 10 anims now without a hitch
>
>       1) build your frames as ILBM AGA 24bit
>       2) use rend24 to build the anim
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Have you managed to get Rend24 to build animations without a locked
palette (and if so, which version of Rend24)?  Whenever I tried to build a
changing-palette anim back in ECS days, Rend24 produced a horrendous mess
for every frame after the first, so I had to lock the palette (which, of
course, looks awful if you need a lot of different colours at various
times).  It would be nice to be able to make proper AGA anims before March
(my estimated release date for Imagine 2.99b ;)

--
Command:
Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6073 Re: More on IFF to slides
12/29/93 13:37 15/ John Foust - Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]
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To: >internet: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Manjit Bedi) asks:
> stuff in Corel Draw; I mention this because Corel Draw has a special
> format for slides called something like "Skodal". Does anyone know

SCODL is used by several PC programs like Harvard Graphics and Corel
Draw.  It's rare outside of those contexts.  It's a structured file
format, giving nice device-independent high-res slides, although I
think it can do bitmaps, too.  SPC and Corel plug it for several
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reasons.  Suits demand slide output, and a certain slide-making
service bureau gives them a mini-terminal program that automatically
sends slide files to them.


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6074 Re: Just to clarify a point
12/29/93 13:43 65/ John Foust - Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]
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To: >internet: [e-mail]

Steve Koren <[e-mail]> writes:
> features.  It has no ARexx (its single biggest failing I think).
> No clipboard. No support of the display database unless you go through
> screen promotion utilities.  No support of datatypes (which is what
> would enable Imagine to transparently read any graphics format, and
> have new ones installed without modifying the Imagine code).  No
> standard file requester.  No iconification of its screen.  Uses its
> hardcoded font instead of your system font.  No direct
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> drag-and-drop.  Etc.

Put yourself in Impulse's shoes for a moment, or in the shoes of any
Amiga developer for that matter.  What percentage of their users will
*use* the ARexx interface?  Will it be a feature that pushes more
people to buy the next upgrade?  And once it's in there, your tech
support line is soon asked to help debug ARexx programs.

(To balance this, we did expend a lot of effort to add an ARexx
interface to all of InterChange Plus.  We found it useful for the
Command:
batch-conversions for the Syndesis 3D-ROM, but I continue to doubt
that many users will ever explore it, and from that perspective, I
wonder whether it was worth the effort.)

As for support of relatively new display methods, icons and
drag-and-drop, it's tough to keep this market happy.  There's a large
base of people still running 1.3, believe it or not.  And then
there's the inane mixture of post-1.3 machines out there.  I've lost
my ability to map the Kickstart and Workbench versions to user-level
2.0 / 2.1 / 3.0 / 3.1 and all the in-between releases that people
Command:
managed to install.  Making an executable that supports everything
means lots of extra effort and lots of dual code.  In an age when the
janitor to answers CBM's phone, you can bet that developers are not
keen on supporting slimly documented OS features.

As for the clipboard, CBM didn't supply many examples for it many
years ago, and few developers ever adopted it.  Why?  I dunno.  I've
heard a zillion stupid arguments against it, often ending in "just
because the Mac does it that way, doesn't mean it's right."

Command:
As for datatypes, again, it's relatively new.  Personally, I don't
think it would've taken off unless CBM wrotes the datatype libraries
for a dozen or so popular formats.  If they do it for image formats,
they're competing against the likes of ASDG.  If they did it for 3D
formats, they'd compete against Syndesis.  Needless to say, this sort
of effort doesn't cultivate good developer relations.  If CBM doesn't
do it, then you've got the "free rider" problem where any developer
who simply adds hooks for datatypes can take advantage of the efforts
of other developers who do provide datatype libraries.

Command:
"Steve J. Lombardi" <[e-mail]> writes:
> AGREED! Imagine does not take advantage of the Amigas killer OS at all.
...
> silver/turbo/imagine has kicked ass. Impulse has fallen behind in
> features and shows no sign of supporting the OS.
...
> play libraries. IS this outrageous?? Am I missing something? It seems
> like almost no extra work to support each platform. Isn't this why we

Everyone would like completely portable code, but reality intervenes.
Command:
On one hand, you beg for 100% utilization of every Amiga-specific OS
feature, and then you want them on the other platform, too.  In my
eyes, Impulse's disregard for popular MSDOS memory managers is a far
more serious problem than their choice of file requester.

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6075 Re: Humanoid
12/29/93 15:11 47/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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>
> >>  I am using the Humanoid models with IM 2.9 to create an animation
> >> where the humanoid gets of the floor like the cute stuff in
> >> Terminator II. Does someone has a good idea on how to place a
> >> checkered texture such that it looks right (Texture covers body and
> >> ground, as if the floor lies over the body).  Any hints would be
> >> appreciated.
> >>
> Tom> My guess would be to align the texture objects of both objects to
> Tom> each other.  Imagine uses the hit coords in relation to the
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> Tom> texture axis to determine what color to show.  So I would: 1)
> Tom> align the texture axis with the object axis on both objects 2) in
> Tom> the stage, align both object axis on top of each other, X on X, Y
> Tom> on Y, and Z on Z.  I think this will work, although I haven't
> Tom> tried it.
>
>       Yes, this should be fine as long as your texture is a 2D
> texture, of course.  In other words, if it ignores the Z (or third)
> component (height) of your object.  A 3D checks would obviously not
> work for this.
Command:
>
Ah, but with 2.9 and states, you can "tack" your textures onto your object,
and they *SHOULD* deform properly right along with your object.  Right?
3d textures or not.

>       Also, this does not "smooth" between the object and the floor,
> unfortunately.  To have the object "oooz" out of the floor you really
> would have to do some morphing.
>
couldn't you use one of the deformations, say "squish"(is this one in there?)
Command:
to make your flattened object and just have two states, flat and human?
Ofcourse, as Glenn said, this isn't gonna look like liquid, more like
a short fat human growing into a taller one.  I'd say a few more states
would be needed.  Maybe one squished and tapered guy, one middle sized
guy and one guy.(Geez, talk about rambling)

As you may have guessed, I haven't upgraded yet. I'm waiting for Apex to
release for Real 3d(OOPS, no flames please:), and then I am gonna check
out Real.  Glenn? any dates?  Wanna pull an Impulse and promise us yesterday?
:) (Sorry, have to work in one of those per day:)
Command:


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6076 Re: Just to clarify a point
12/29/93 16:09 24/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Well, my opinion is that ARexx is too-often used as a kludge for doing
operations that should be BUILT-IN to the programs.

Professional Page is the most guilty of this.  Sh*t, I need an ARexx
script to align two boxes?  Why?  That, and most of those cheesy
"Genies" should be built-in operations - as in "click this button".

Same goes for ADPro/FRED, and even ImageFX to a lesser extent.

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Now, a good use of ARexx? = Showmaker controlling the Toaster over the
serial port.  Or even AmiLink controlling the Toaster.  Still, if NewTek
would just make their own editing/sequencing s/w for the Toaster, none
of that would be needed... but ARexx-something is better than nothing, I
guess.

Sorry this aint got much todo with Imagine... except to say that I'd
rather have Impulse build functions into the program than rely on an
ARexx port and 3rd party scripts.  Just what kind of operations could
ARexx do that you'd like to see anyway?  Are they things that couldn't
Command:
be done internally by Imagine alone?

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6077 R3D upgrading
12/29/93 17:07 38/ [e-mail] (Ben Scott)
Lines 1 to 10 of 38 (26%)
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>  I'm waiting for Apex to
> release for Real 3d(OOPS, no flames please:), and then I am gonna check
> out Real.  Glenn? any dates?

Don't bother waiting!  Real3D, as we've said before, offers a goodly amount
of what Essence For Imagine gives already.  Essence for Real3D is said to be
a whole new ballgame, but you'll need some time to come up to speed on it
anyway so make the jump now.  I deleted Imagine off my HD not long after
I bought Real3D and I haven't missed it.  The interface is incredible, the
feature list is unmatched, the software is stable and supports all those
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useless little nonsense items like the Display Database, AREXX, the standard
file requester, etc... I still have a soft spot for Imagine, but it's just
(IMO) outclassed.  Real3D will take some time to learn, but only because
there's simply more of it - the manual is huge, about half tutorials, and
there's online context-sensitive help too.  It's just more USABLE, at least
to me, than Imagine ever was.

I'll stop here 'cause this isn't really the appropriate place for R3D
evangelism; this is my last message to the IML anyhow as I'm unsubscribing.
I'm still on the learning curve for R3D but things are going nicely, and anyone
Command:
who's interested in help making the jump from Imagine can send me Email if
they have questions.

'Bye all, it's been fun.  Anyone wanna buy a used copy of Imagine?  I'll
throw in the Buddy System (which I never used), a set of Pro Textures,
and if you really want, my copy of Understanding Imagine, though that'll
probably double the value of the whole package, at least...

.                              <<<<Infinite K>>>>

Command:
--
.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Ben Scott, video animation dilettante and consultant at The Raster Image. |
| [e-mail], 24 hours a day!/\-----------------------------------|
|---------------------------------------.\ Powered by the mighty Amiga 4000 |
| "The penalty for murder is the same   `-----------------------------------|
| here as anywhere else."  "Plea bargain and a suspended sentence?" - MST3k |
`---------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6078 Re: Just to clarify a point
12/29/93 16:18 81/ [e-mail]
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>John Foust states:

>>Steve Koren <[e-mail]> writes:
>> features.  It has no ARexx (its single biggest failing I think).
>> No clipboard. No support of the display database unless you go through
>> screen promotion utilities.  No support of datatypes (which is what
>> would enable Imagine to transparently read any graphics format, and
>> have new ones installed without modifying the Imagine code).  No
>> standard file requester.  No iconification of its screen.  Uses its
>> hardcoded font instead of your system font.  No direct
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>> drag-and-drop.  Etc.

>Put yourself in Impulse's shoes for a moment, or in the shoes of any
>Amiga developer for that matter.  What percentage of their users will
>*use* the ARexx interface?  Will it be a feature that pushes more
>people to buy the next upgrade?  And once it's in there, your tech
>support line is soon asked to help debug ARexx programs.

>(To balance this, we did expend a lot of effort to add an ARexx
>interface to all of InterChange Plus.  We found it useful for the
Command:
>batch-conversions for the Syndesis 3D-ROM, but I continue to doubt
>that many users will ever explore it, and from that perspective, I
>wonder whether it was worth the effort.)


John, Arexx is used by many Amiga owners even those who have never
programmed a line of Arexx. Many commercial applications come
with Arexx programs to add features and functionality to the
application. There are also many pd/freeware arexx programs available
to do a wide variety of tasks. An Arexx port is becoming a must
Command:
have in any modern Amiga application.


>As for support of relatively new display methods, icons and
>drag-and-drop, it's tough to keep this market happy.  There's a large
>base of people still running 1.3, believe it or not.  And then
>there's the inane mixture of post-1.3 machines out there.  I've lost
>my ability to map the Kickstart and Workbench versions to user-level
>2.0 / 2.1 / 3.0 / 3.1 and all the in-between releases that people
>managed to install.  Making an executable that supports everything
Command:
>means lots of extra effort and lots of dual code.  In an age when the
>janitor to answers CBM's phone, you can bet that developers are not
>keen on supporting slimly documented OS features.


John, why does Syndesis or anyone else have to support AmigaDos 1.3?
Anyone who hasnt upgraded to at least AmigaDos 2.04 isnt likely to buy
yours or anyone else's software. More and more Amiga programs
are requiring AmigaDos 2.04 or above. SoftLogik with PageStream 3.0,
Softwood with Final Writer, VRLI with VistaPro 3.0, etc all require
Command:
tthe user to have at least AmigaDos 2.04. That should be the mininum
baseline OS revision now. I'm tired of hearing amiga software companies
complain that they have to support the A500 owners with 1 meg of memory
a 8mhz 68000 and AmigaDos 1.3. Sometimes you have to leave the past behind
to move to the future.

As for the problem of having to maintain dual code in order to have
all features of a program available for all OS revisions, again I
ask why? What's wrong with taking advantage of new OS features
if they are available on the machine the application is running
Command:
on and not making them available on machines which are not running
a newer OS? You cant use ProPage Genies on machines without Arexx
which requires AmigaDos 2.04 or above or buying it from Bill
Hawes. I just got my Final Writer upgrade from Final Copy and
there are a whole bunch of features that arent available unless
you are running AmigaDos 2.1 or better.

If you and other Amiga software developers keep coddling the AmigaDos
1.3 users by bending over backward to support AmigaDos 1.3 they will
never upgrade their machines. If CBM comes out with a 10ghz Alpha based
Command:
Amiga with 1 gigabyte of memory in 2005 and a 10 terabyte hard disk
will you and other Amiga developers still be claiming that "gee,
we cant afford to add any new features because the  1 floppy, 1 megabyte
8mhz A500 owners cant use it."



                                 Scott Corley

[e-mail]
Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6079 Re:  2.9 Screen Sizes
12/29/93 17:35 81/ [e-mail] (Daniel T. Edwards)
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If you have any problems with this modification:
1) Don't Blame me for your Guru.
2) Send me E-mail with your config (a2000,040,Retina,etc..)
   I'm curoius to see what causes Imagine to fail
   with this modification.



Ok, here's how it works...
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Get a filezapper type program. (NewZap DPU FileZap Hex etc...)

Look up your version of Imagine on the chart below.
(If your version is not listed, Email me and I'll see if I can
make one for it.)

Edit the executeable at the bytes indicated in the chart. The block #s and
byte #s are shown in decimal.  The hex numbers in parenthesis are the hex
versions of the block numbers.  The bytes to modify are, of course, in hex.
Command:
Replace the resolution you  find there with the resolution you want.  Then
save the new file. (I don't have to remind you to keep a backup of Imagine
on hand!)

Notice that Imagine automaticly doubles the vertical resolution for use in
interlace mode.  So, if you want vertical resolution of 462 then you must
tell it to give you 231.  (231 = 00E7 in hex)

 Imagine Version # Horizontal                   Vertical

Command:
FP       1.1     Block 393 ($189)             Block 83 ($053)
                 Bytes 220 & 221              Bytes 162 & 163
                 From  02    80               From  00    C8
       (Example: To    02    BC = 700 in dec)(To    00    E7 = 231 dec)

FP       2.0     Block 497 ($1F1)             Block 95 ($05F)
                 Bytes 328 & 329              Bytes 250 & 251
                 From  02    80               From  00    C8

INT PAL  2.0     Block 500 ($1F4)             Block 94 ($05E)
Command:
                 Bytes 124 & 125              Bytes 42 & 43
                 From  02   80                From  01   00

FP  PAL  2.0     Block 497 ($1F1)             Block 95 ($05F)
                 Bytes 388 & 389              Bytes 244 & 245
                 From  02    80               From  01   0

INT      2.9     Block 1561 ($619)            Block 119 ($077)
                 Bytes 486 & 487              Bytes 480 & 481
                 From  02    80               From  00    C8
Command:

FP       2.9     Block 1529 ($5F9)            Block 95 ($05F)
                 Bytes 82  & 83               Bytes 168 & 169
                 From  02    80               From  00    C8

FP  PAL  2.9     Block 1529 ($5F9)            Block 95 ($05F)
                 Bytes 146 & 147              Bytes 162 & 163
                 From  02    80               From  01    00

Impulse told me, in the past, that Imagine is made to run ONLY on a
Command:
640 x 400 screen.  I was told that if I changed it, I would do so at my own
peril.  I pass this information on  to you.

One Final Note:  Imagine PC users have a whole different program than Amiga
users.  This modification will not work on the PC version.  I would guess
that a simmilar modification for the PC version would be more  complicated,
given that VGA modes are more complicated than Amiga modes. I would be very
interested to see someone try though.   Imagine Imagineering on a 486DX2/66
with a 1024 x 768 editor screen. Now imagine Impulse telling you it will
never happen.
Command:

Thanks to Juha Kallioinen of Finland for the PAL numbers.

 ____________________________________________________________
/                                                            \
| Amiga 2000                James R. Walker                  |
| 2MB Chip             [e-mail]           |
| 18MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /                                              |
| 68040 33Mhz |Heinlein,Rand,Clarke,Adams,Asimov,Niven,Worley|
Command:
\____________________________________________________________/
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6080 Re: Humanoid
12/29/93 16:15 21/ [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
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>>>>> "Tom" == Thomas Setzer <[e-mail]> writes:

Tom> Ah, but with 2.9 and states, you can "tack" your textures onto
Tom> your object, and they *SHOULD* deform properly right along with
Tom> your object.  Right?  3d textures or not.

        Ooops, right.  :-)

Tom> As you may have guessed, I haven't upgraded yet. I'm waiting for
Tom> Apex to release for Real 3d(OOPS, no flames please:), and then I
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Tom> am gonna check out Real.  Glenn? any dates?  Wanna pull an
Tom> Impulse and promise us yesterday?  :) (Sorry, have to work in one
Tom> of those per day:)

        Sorry, I've vowed to myself to try never to pull an impulse.
(Ouch! :-)
        Anyway, Charles Congdon is working on this and it shall be
tremendous... nothing remotely like the current Essence I&II...  much
more powerful.  No dates yet.  No other info yet either.  Still in the
development stages.
Command:
                                                -- Glenn
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6081 Re: Just to clarify a point
12/29/93 23:41 48/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> Sorry this aint got much todo with Imagine... except to say that I'd
> rather have Impulse build functions into the program than rely on an
> ARexx port and 3rd party scripts.  Just what kind of operations could
> ARexx do that you'd like to see anyway?  Are they things that couldn't
> be done internally by Imagine alone?

Good point.  But I'm gonna disagree.

I think ARexx has several whopping huge advantages over built-in
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functions, especially Imagine-style ones.  The first is that I can now
control Imagine internal operations from another program.  I do this a
lot now, with the tools that support it such as ImageFX.  I have hooked
ImageFX and gnu emacs into all kinds of things.

Second, I get extensibility of the product beyond its own environment.
Not only can I write my own operations and "primitive functions", I can
call the internals of one application from another.

I use this stuff a lot.  I want to see more of it.
Command:

ARexx isn't a great language, but it *is* a standard way of doing
interprocess communication and control.  Also, having all your
applications have a *common* scripting language is something of an
advantage also.

I do realize that a lot of people probably never use it though.  But it
does provide a degree of power that you just can't get otherwise.  How
else could I, for example, sit in a shell window, CD to a directory, and
type a shell command to have Imagine load an object from there?  (I do
Command:
that a *lot* with ImageFX, and I desperately want it in Imagine).  Or,
click a button in Imagine and have it load the brushmap from the current
object into a running ImageFX?  Or have Imagine automatically re-do the
quickrender as soon as I save the current brush from ImageFX or DPaint?
If Imagine had an ARexx port, I could do bazillions of little things
like that to make my environment more productive, along with several big
things such as writing my own beveling operators or what have you.
Sure, you could go off and invent a non-arexx way to do this stuff, but
why bother?  We've already got a standard mechanism for it.  Its just
that Impulse hasn't seen fit to support it yet.
Command:

I do agree not everyone wants or needs it.  But not everyone wants, say,
reflection maps, or a twist+extrude operator, either.  Due to the nature
of what you get with ARexx, I place it on a higher level than any
individual other feature that doesn't itself provide extensibility of
the environment.

  - steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6082 Re: $$ for School (fwd)
12/30/93 00:04 10/ Steve Lopez <[e-mail]>
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Just wanted to say, I at least appreciated the info...off topic tho it be.
 I forwarded it to half a dozen other starving students in my video
production classes, and also to the school financial aid office, and
school net.  Thanks again, Starving video and computer animation students
will at least be informed...  :)

Steve.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6083 Re: Just to clarify a point
12/30/93 00:23 29/ Steve Lopez <[e-mail]>
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> John, why does Syndesis or anyone else have to support AmigaDos 1.3?
> Anyone who hasnt upgraded to at least AmigaDos 2.04 isnt likely to buy
> yours or anyone else's software. More and more Amiga programs
> are requiring AmigaDos 2.04 or above. SoftLogik with PageStream 3.0,
> Softwood with Final Writer, VRLI with VistaPro 3.0, etc all require
> tthe user to have at least AmigaDos 2.04. That should be the mininum
> baseline OS revision now. I'm tired of hearing amiga software companies
> complain that they have to support the A500 owners with 1 meg of memory
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> a 8mhz 68000 and AmigaDos 1.3. Sometimes you have to leave the past behind
> to move to the future.

Agreement here...C'mon folks, It'd be a different story if it was a mac or
something that cost a fortune to *legally* upgrade the roms...but
considering that 2.0xx can be bought for under 30 bucks, and the features
of the new roms alone are worth that, Heck I've seen it for as low as
$21.95 american on special some places...get with the program people, if
you cant afford 30 bucks for new roms, how are you gonna afford the
average price of a couple hundred for a software package?  Move outa the past!
Command:

No, I'm sorry, we dont support '040 code, it wont run on the C64!

My 8 1/2 cents.

Steve.



Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6084 More Grow F/X problems
12/30/93 07:21 13/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> Ok, so right now the Grow F/X doesn't seem to work on Imagine 2.9. But,
> how about all the problems in 2.0 ? I was already aware that the scaling

Sorry, I can't help with this, but I have a related question.  Is there
something I'm not understand about the "Tumble" effect in 2.0?  I can
use "Rotate2.0" with great results.  But if I just replace it with
tumble but keep everything else the same, no movement takes place.  (The
other F/X seem to work also - I just can't get tumble to do anything).

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Am I missing something?

  - steve
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6085 Re: More Grow F/X problems
12/30/93 10:19 40/ Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
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On Thu, 30 Dec 1993, Steve Koren wrote:

>
> > Ok, so right now the Grow F/X doesn't seem to work on Imagine 2.9. But,
> > how about all the problems in 2.0 ? I was already aware that the scaling
>
> Sorry, I can't help with this, but I have a related question.  Is there
> something I'm not understand about the "Tumble" effect in 2.0?  I can
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> use "Rotate2.0" with great results.  But if I just replace it with
> tumble but keep everything else the same, no movement takes place.  (The
> other F/X seem to work also - I just can't get tumble to do anything).
>
> Am I missing something?
>
>   - steve

        Lots of people have trouble with this.  The answer is simple.

Command:
        Ready?

        Take a lone axis and make it the parent of the objects, or group
of objects that you want to tumble.  That's it!

        Imagine needs a stable axis for controlling the object.  If the
parent axis was tumbling all over, you would not be able to control
alignment or direction.

        It is briefly mentioned in the Imagine manual, and it was left out
Command:
of Understanding Imagine 2.0 (a printing error, I'm sure ;^)


        Cyrus J. Kalbrener

                Digital_Cel

                        "...To render, by any means necessary!..."


Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6086 Lensflares
12/30/93 11:41 32/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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     AARRRGGGHHHH!!!! That damn LensFlare texture is worse than awful....
It's a nice idea and would probably work well if it didn't operate with
Imagine's buggered transparency. I've been trying to put a couple of
subtle flares on a ship heading into a gas giant's aptmosphere. The first
problem arrives when overlapping two disks (the duel engines are close
together) and having the overlapping areas appear solid. So I split the
disks (and lost the inner part of the flare, oh well...) and tried it
again. It looks fine in the detail editor but dosen't show up in the
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stage..... What does appear completly blocks out the fog object that
composes the planet's aptmosphere!!!!!!  At least the jets from the
engines look nice (fireball on a teardrop) as does the entry into the
aptmosphere (fireball on a morphing hemisphere ==> elongated teardrop),
complete with crackling fractelly stuff....

      I give up on the Lens Flares. I've wasted 4 days on it.... Let me
know if you have more luck or figure a work-around.

                                            Christopher
Command:

ps. Has anyone had sucess with the particle fx. I couldn't figure a way to
affix an emission to the tail of a rocket. I wanted a bubble-drive ;-)..




--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
Command:
believe to be good, then are we all damned.
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6087 AREXX
12/30/93 17:59 27/ [e-mail]
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Hi all;
        I guess to just ad my 3/4 cents worth I consulted a users group
and several amiga developers to find out more about arexx. I was overwhelmed
by many facts and power delivered to the user but everyone "EVERYONE" I
talked with agreed if it does not support arexx then DON'T buy it!
and programs that do not support clipboards, the display database, data types,
standard file requestors, etc. etc. etc. are considered at best beginning
programming attempts. I was told that these were not difficult to handle
even between multiple platforms. (surprising considering amount of video cards
for pc's) Several of these developers do Mac, PC & AMIGA formats. I talked
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with people from arizona, Utah & California. It did not take long to find
these results. Someone said the "writing is on the wall" in an earlier post
and as I read the comments here it does seem true, Imagine has fallen
behind by not integrating better with 3.0 ADOS. and they don't seem to
be responding to the desires of their customers.
        I am evaluating imagine for a large company. I have found that
the poor integration in relation the multitasking operations of the Amiga,
as well as all the above mentioned problems forces me to be unable to
recommend this product. I love the amiga for its O.S. to not make proper
use of it is just not acceptable. I am still open to see what 3.0 holds
Command:
but I am not holding my breath.

        I mean no offense to anyone in my comments, and am willing to
apologize to anyone who feels offended. I have been optomistic about
imagine but have to be realistic.

                                                        Lesk
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.6088 Re: Lensflares
12/31/93 20:41 33/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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>
>Hey Christopher,
>       As much as I love Imagine, I have to admit, LensFlare is
>strictly tinkerbell.  I've tried and tried to get it to look less
>cartooney, and have given up.  It's junk.

     I managed to get it looking alright in stills. You have to make sure
a light source (spot) is directed at the face of the disk. It work so-so
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but it's the best I've got ;-).


>       I figured great, more mac junk--but no way.  The
>lensflare option is delicious!  And very easy to use, with
>multiple diminishing flares and little realistic diffraction
>rainbows. I wouldn't cross the street for a MAC, but the
>lensflare in PhotoShop puts Imagine's attempt in the toilet.

     Imagine's lighting is supposed to get an upgrade in the full release
Command:
of 3.0, let's hope. I tried to use Imagemaster RT 1.01 to add lens flares
to a sequence (after all, it IS a nice effect..) but it seems that IMRT
has a few more problems than even Imagine does <sigh>.

     If Impulse is listening....... Take your time, get it right.



--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
Command:
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!
Command: